Bishop Trautman criticizes new translation!

Methinks the noble lord bishop must believe that full glory and richness of the sacred mysteries is only for the elect, like him, and the simple faithful have to be spoon-fed watered down gobbets, which of course he will choose. This is not pastoral care. This is esotericism.

Which is more difficult for the average parish priest in an average parish - to explain unfamiliar words, or to make up for the deficit of spiritual understanding which arises from having an over-simplified Mass text?

To paraphrase J.K. Rowling:

"Before this Missal goes into effect, I would like to say a few words.

"Sullied! Unfeigned! Gibbet! Thwart!

“Thank you.”

Link

I couldn’t believe at first that the picture was of a BISHOP wearing a clown nose with his vestments. :blush:

How will John and Mary Catholic relate to the new words of the Creed: “consubstantial to the Father” …"

Well, your Excellency, if they paid attention in 2nd Grade and learned what “Transubstantial” meant, it’s a small step from there to “Consubstantial”

And if they don’t know what “Transubstantial” means, they you really need some Adult catechesis in your diocese.

I think it is not beautiful enough. I think the English mass can use a little (but not too much) of King James type of language. With today’s English, the Eucharistic Prayer would be reduced to:

Like, this guy Jesus, said to his friends…Like, take this…and like, eat it.

And the Stole OVER the chasuble.

I’m glad his Excellency is uncomfortable with the new translation. Perhaps it might make him rethink his own positions on things.

If the bishop had his way, we would all be attending ‘children’s Masses’, with readings geared to an elementary school reading level, with equally appropriate music, such as ‘Jesus loves me so…’ Please, just give me a reverent, dignified, beautifully chanted Mass in Latin. I just can’t take this foolishness anymore!!! I can’t believe people actually give into such gibberish.

Maybe something like this works better for Bp. Troutman:

“I admit to really strong God, and to you all that I’ve messed up, my bad, in stuff I thought and did, and didn’t do. I ask good Mary, still a virgin, the angels and saints, and all of you to pray for me to the really strong God.”

I think the photograph says it all. By the way, whcih season were those liturgical colors from? Has the Church abandoned the old standbyes? While true, orange is a pretty color, it really matches none of the seasons that I am aware of.

Which just about sums up the verbal garbage that B. Trautmann calls a liturgy.

If the good Bishop Trautman criticizes it it must be a more faithful translation. A good indicator of orthodoxy is if the liberals come up with objections that make them sound like little girls.

I don’t like it, because it is too hard! The people are too dumb, I am scared. You are too mean. Lets all be nice and play, etc…

Scylla

I agree with Bishop Trautman.

The response, “and with your spirit,” after 40 years of “and also with you,” is going to be confusing and meaningless. Who speaks this way in our society today?

Jim

Why would it be confusing and meaningless? Is it that people are unteachable? I think it is a great disservice to think most folks are simple minded.

And is that photo really of the bishop?

We do all the time in the Spanish translation.
“y con tu espiritu”

No one speaks that way in current Spanish culture, yet we don’t say “andale” at Mass either.

This is something I noticed as I learned Spanish these last couple years, I still don’t speak it properly but I see the blatant differences between the English translation and the Spanish.

Does it really matter how we speak in day to day live, if it did then here in California we would say something like “right on” instead of “and also with you”.

Mass is something special and the language reflects that, except when it is dumbed down.

In Christ
Scylla

Well, saying “and with your spirit”, what does that mean?

Jim

How about this?:

The spirit referred to in the Latin is the spirit of Christ who comes to a priest when he is ordained, as St. Paul explained to Timothy. In other words, the people are saying in their response that Christ as head of the Church is the head of the liturgical assembly, no matter who the particular priest celebrant may be. That is a statement of faith, a statement distorted by transforming it into an exchange of personal greetings.”

The language of public prayer also needs to be truly beautiful, noble, even poetic. So, for example, in the “Our Father” we use a good English word like “hallowed,” which is not part of our everyday speech, yet very appropriate for prayer. Many prayers, hymns, anthems and texts that are part of our religious and national heritage make use of language that is a cut above the way we ordinarily speak to one another. The goal of a new English translation of the Mass is not to sound like Shakespeare, but to use our language in a manner worthy of the Mass…

toledodiocese.org/content/view/198/169/

The link you provided explains it well.

Thanks
Jim

I’m impressed that you all have ignored most of what the bishop said and are fixated on a picture that was taken lord knows when and lord knows in what context. But hey…as always…don’t let facts get in the way of a chance to bash a ‘liberal’ shepherd.

I’m going to remind you all of some facts.

Bishop Trautman was not even on the ballot to lead the liturgy committee the last time the chair was vacant. The favorite was Bishop Vigneron from Oakland. It was his brother bishops who put his name forward to lead the conference through the translation squabbles…and he accepted.

I’m not sure that this article is concerned with us saying “and with your spirit”…but it is concerned that by going and translating word for bloody word from latin that it is creating English syntax which is not in any grammatical format that we listen to…making the texts unproclaimable in a realistic way.

There is a happy medium here folks…I mean, you can be reverent and sacramental without praying that God send forth his Dew on the bread on the altar (which gives me the willies).

But hey…we all know what happens around here when a bishop speaks out on his own…he’s a traitor to the cause…even when most people can’t agree on what the cause is.

Oh…by the way…if we’re gonna get on Bishop Trautman for wearing his stole inappropriately…we should really do the same for the prefect of the CDW dont you think?

Yes we should get on his case too!

Good point Frommi

God Bless
Scylla

In defense of His Excellency, while I absolutely disagree with his views on most of the language, some of the new translation is a bit…clunky. Like:

Accept, O Lord, these gifts, and by your power change them into the sacrament of salvation, in which the prefiguring sacrifices of the Fathers have an end and the true Lamb is offered, he who was born ineffably of the inviolate Virgin.

It’s not the “ineffable” or the “inviolate” or the “prefiguring” as his Excellency says ,but just the sound of the whole thing- it’s a bit of a mouthful. But that’s just me.

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