Black lives matter, until they’re ended by black people


#42

So your response to the problem is lets do nothing. What a shame.


#43

I’ve had that same experience, and it’s disconcerting. That said, don’t you realize that you’re doing the same thing you (correctly) pointed out people shouldn’t do when it comes to white cops, ie assume a racial motivation for their actions?

Maybe the black guy who made the gun symbol at you hates white people. Maybe he’s schizophrenic. Maybe he was on something. Maybe he’s just an equal opportunity a-hole who likes to pick fights. Could be any of the above, but if it’s wrong to assume a white cop who shoots someone did so for racist reasons, it’s equally wrong to assume a black guy who made a threatening gesture did so for racist reasons.


#44

Blacks who live in the US are disproportionately exposed to violence, even from police, due to the color of their skin.

Frankly, they have a lot of years to catch up on that ledger.

Of course that would be racist.
If someone automatically makes a judgment about another person based on the race of the person being judged, that is racist. It does not matter in the least what the skin color of the judge is.

I don’t see where this would give the police room to treat everyone in an entire neighborhood as a perpetrator.

The poster used the emoji because asking “Has anyone ever asked why they are racist?” is the kind of question that would leave anyone speechless.
Did you really think the answer to that question is even remotely close to “no”? Really?
Seriously, I don’t know what to say to that, either.

What is your advice for a black person who ventures out to live in a neighborhood that is predominantly white? Should they avoid (a) running and (b) wearing hoodies?


#45

If blacks really rejected the help of whites in solving the problems pertaining to unfair treatment of blacks, we’d still have Jim Crow laws.

No, actually, having to teach your son how not to be shot by the police (or some “stand your ground” lunatic in Florida) is NOT the least problematic issue facing “their culture.”

The problem that some suspects are treated differently depending on the color of their skin is an extremely problematic issue facing our culture.

No. We can’t ask black men to accept being treated the way they are treated by police until societal attitudes towards black men change.
Why would we do that, even if we could?

I don’t think you understand racism. If an officer makes life and death decisions and factors in the color of the suspect’s skin, that is racism. There is not a reason for that, because jumping to conclusions based on skin color is not just unjust. It is irrational.
That is not to say that police are particularly irrational. We all make decisions all day long that are emotional rather than rational. Most of the time, it doesn’t matter that much. In this case, though, it matters a lot. That is why we have to teach ourselves to stop when we are making a judgment about someone we don’t know and ask ourselves if we have biased our opinions based on irrelevant aspects about the person, such as race, sex, language accent, political affiliation, and so on.

Bing. Bing. Bing. Correct answer!!


#46

Black Lives Matter was formed in response to pent-up frustration brought to a head by the death of Trayvon Martin, who was not shot in a “black neighborhood.” He was shot while a guest of a resident of the multi-ethnic gated community The Retreat at Twin Lakes, where there had been some break-ins.

This is a Catholic web site. We are well aware of what the Gospels had to say about prejudices, since there was plenty of prejudice between Jews and Samaritans.

What is the answer to the question: Who is my neighbor?

What is the response to finding your neighbor’s sons are routinely suspected of being dangerous criminals, based solely on the color of their skin, their age, or any other irrelevant factor such as that?

More to the point: What is your response to the knowledge that your neighbor’s son is more likely to be shot and killed in essentially any neighborhood anywhere, regardless of crime rate, because of aspects of his appearance that he cannot change?


#47

It wasn’t a blanket statement, just the result of my own personal experiences. I know it’s not the norm.

I agree that it’s a problem. My assertion is that there’s a basis for it, not that it good or we shouldn’t work to do away with it.

I’m not asking them to accept it. Did you even read my post? I want them to do something about it. I want them to address the underlying causes. But why should attitudes change if the factors which have created those attitudes don’t? The fact remains that most crime in America is perpetrated by black men. That’s terrible, and I hate it, but it’s also a fact we have to recognize. People aren’t going to be able to forget about that until it’s no longer the reality we live in. In order to bring about change in external perception, the internal factors which result in that perception must change first. At least in cases where internal factors are the cause behind a perception.

It’s terrible that there is profiling, it’s terrible that skin color plays a role in decision making, and it’s terrible that there’s such a high rate of crime in low-income, black areas. Those three things are all interrelated though, and the first two aren’t going to change until the third starts to.

An irrational act is one which has no foundation. If you live in an area where there is excessive gun violence among black males, and you also know that certain motions accompany the removal of a gun from concealment, when you see a black male making those motions, it’s not an unreasonable conclusion. The same is true in areas with a lot of white gun violence, or Hispanic, or just gun violence in general. It’s tragic, but not irrational.

Feel free to respond, but I really can’t… I need to close this window so I stop getting notifications…


#48

By the way, read this story:

LaPorsha Washington had loaded her daughters into her silver sedan on Sunday morning on one such run. Alxis Dilbert, 15, was sitting in the front passenger seat. Ebonee Dilbert, 13, sat just behind. Six-year-old Unique Barnes, in the middle, and Jazmine was behind her mom.

As they headed to a Joe-V’s Smart Shop grocery in northeast Harris County, a gaunt man in a red pickup truck pulled up next to them on Wallisville Road just before 7 a.m. and started firing.

“I didn’t even see him. I didn’t see the truck,” Washington said, recalling glass shattering around her as bullets struck the car. “He emptied out his gun. I know that for a fact.”

One bullet struck her in the arm. She turned around to check on her daughters and saw that Jazmine had been shot in the head. Two other girls were injured by flying shards of glass.

The details of the violent assault came into sharper focus Thursday, as Washington and her oldest daughter shared new details about the shooting and authorities released a composite sketch they hope will lead to tips about the gunman.

I do not want to hear ANYBODY ask why there was an outraged response to this crime NOR to dare to wonder how the victim could have gotten the description of the gunman wrong. Any victim of a crime like that could get the description wrong, and no one ought to expect her to be rational. She was the victim of a totally unexpected and horrific crime. The crime was heinous, and the fear that was solely race-based of course suggested that it might be an act not of a lone criminal, but of a terrorist. It was certainly an extremely terrifying crime to anyone who might have felt they could be next for reasons totally out of their control.


#49

Right my post which was several paragraphs was EQUALLY childish to a rolled eyes emoji. If it didn’t deserve a response why respond at all?

When a white police officer sees the disproportionate crime daily in black communities, couldn’t they also be construed as a victim? So I guess if we can’t comment on factual issues which lead to racism because it’s considered “blaming the victim” we can’t blame white cops for purported racism.

The issue isn’t about blame. It’s about taking responsibility and black people are to blame for the disproportionately high crime rates in their neighborhoods. Now I know there are other factors such as how they have been treated throughout history and there is no possible way to determine what % blame goes with what but in my opinion the majority of the blame for crimes lies with the perpetrator.

I’m not saying blacks are 100% to blame or that society doesn’t significantly influence this BUT if we have discussion that starts from premise of society needs to change and black individuals do not we are having a foolhearty discussion and the same one we have had for the past 60 years which has lead us to where we are.


#50

Judging someone you don’t know based on the color of their skin is irrational.
Let’s see how this works by considering this line of thought:
Most armed criminals in this neighborhood have been black and wearing casual clothing.
That guy is black and he’s wearing casual clothing.
I’m treating that guy as armed until proven otherwise, even though I wouldn’t be as concerned if he weren’t black.

Do you see how this line of reasoning is flawed and could lead to shooting unarmed people based on the color of their skin? It doesn’t matter if the black man is a pacifist priest! He’s going to be treated as if he were armed and dangerous, no matter what he does, because a main factor in how he is treated is out of his control!! How is a guy who knows he is going to be seen as armed and dangerous regardless of what he does not going to develop an antipathy for the police? Tell me: is he being irrational?

You said: “…certain motions accompany the removal of a gun from concealment, when you see a black male making those motions, it’s not an unreasonable conclusion…”
No. Those motions should get the same response from the police regardless of who makes them. The color of the suspect has nothing to do with it. Why? Because drawing conclusions based on color will put innocent people who pose no threat based on rational evidence such as “certain motions that accompany the removal of a gun from concealment” at risk.

When everyone, regardless of color, feels the same need and needs the same education to avoid giving the impression that they are removing a deadly weapon from concealment, then we will be living in a situation where the police are forced to unfortunately make reasonable conclusions that will unfortunately respond to a risk that was suspected but unproven. As you point out, that will still be tragic, but at least it will be rational, just and based on the unfortunate physical constraints of response time, not conclusions based on skin color.

Racism isn’t about “having it out for blacks.” White cops trying to maintain order in a black neighborhood obviously don’t “have it out for blacks” or else they wouldn’t work there. Racism is about unexamined and unfair attitudes that unnecessarily put innocent people at risk or unfairly deny qualified people the presumption that they could be as qualified as anyone else. Racism can even put unfair high expectations on people, such as expecting that there is something wrong if a girl is not neater than a boy or that it is worse if an Asian kid is lazy about his homework than a kid of a different color. That’s the problem with prejudice.


#51

I don’t either and I don’t think they are. See you seem to live in a fantasy world driven by our liberal media and hollywood where cops are just driving around hunting for black people to kill. I would admit this may occur, perhaps .00000000000000000000001% of the time.

I guess it leaves you speechless because you don’t like the answer. Racism in most cases doesn’t just come out of thin air. When you look at crime statistics that show blacks disproportionately commit most crimes I suppose the stats are racist to you as well. I’m not saying racism is right but it comes from a certain place and it’s not just the fantasy world you create where some evil white guy just wakes up one day and says I hate blacks. I challenge you to live in a poor inner city black neighborhood for a few months and observe what goes on there and see if your views don’t change. Again, I’m not arguing for racism I’m just saying a simple it’s evil does not address the root cause of it.


#52

Why are you taking my comments personally when the discussion is on the BLM movement? I do think it’s safe to say the BLM movement is putting blame on white racism, many BLM meetings even excluded whites from participating.

I don’t think the problem is white led racism in the police force and thus it isn’t the problem of “corrupt black people in power”. Higher police confrontations are a symptom of a community with a higher level of violence.


#53

In other words you don’t think a problem exists as far as how some police behave towards the black community. You think the problem is the black community itself.

But that doesn’t mean that people in a community with a higher level of violence is lying about being unjustly treated. I’m hoping at least that you wouldn’t justify injustice or ignore such claims based on the fact that the community has a higher level of violence; since i’m sure you would agree that it’s not right to tarnish everybody with the same brush.

I’m mean surely you don’t see black people as a threat, but rather you reserve that judgement for individuals that are evidently a threat.


#54

No, you are right, usually it doesn’t. Yes, sometimes it comes out of guilt or a need to rationalize treating one group unfairly–across history, people who treat others unfairly but want to see themselves as fair-minded usually rationalized a reason why they weren’t really being unjust–but usually it is a unconscious failure in reasoning.

The unconscious nature of unfair judgments based on race does not mean it is not racism!! You can point to any stereotype, and they usually all “come from somewhere.” They come from what people are taught about groups they have had no contact with, they come from contact with a few very bad individuals, they come from contact from a few very good ones. Racism, like all stereotyping, comes from drawing specific conclusions from general observations. That, however, violates the rules of logic. It is not rational.

Racism isn’t “I hate blacks.” Racism is “I see your race, and I jump to conclusions about you, personally, that are based on accidental characteristics that you cannot control.”

Racism is a form of rash judgment. It is a violation against the truth and a violation against charity.

I think that is what people are missing here. It is bad enough to grow up in a neighborhood of thugs without having contend with the issue of being presumed to be a thug because you also grew up in that neighborhood and you accidentally have physical traits that make you look similar to the way the thugs look. Most of the people in bad neighborhoods aren’t bad, after all. They’re the ones most likely to be the victims of crimes, not perpetrators, but they can’t afford to move somewhere where there are fewer people committing crimes because the criminals want what they don’t have. The unfortunate neighbors don’t need to be presumed to be guilty on account of problem people who do more to make their lives difficult and dangerous more than anyone else.


#55

No, I didn’t say that. It’s self evident that there is a problem with “how some police” behave to blacks, latinos and even white people.

Addressing such police abuse is more about training and effective oversight. There is not evidence of system racism.

The stat that more blacks are confronted by the police also has a correlation with higher levels of violence in their communities. I suspect the antidote to that is more about economic opportunities and better education.


#56

That much we can both agree with.


#57

I guess this means racism doesn’t exist, police never behave with excessive force, Blacks aren’t orders of magnitude more likely to be killed by police, there is no racial disparity in prison sentences, and all’s well in Oz, right? :roll_eyes:


#58

I think you are mixing up causation and correlation.

Police are actually taught to behave with excessive force, the theory is that if you must go “hands on” with a suspect then you want to dominate the situation so it doesn’t escalate further. I don’t agree personally, but this strategy is public knowledge, it’s not specific to the color of the citizen they are engaging.

Blacks are more likely to be killed by violence, be it from other blacks or the police. The generally higher level of violence does obviously lead to a higher rate of police involvement and confrontation. Is your suggestion that the police just ignore their communities, so black arrests are in line with the white population?

The racial disparity in prison sentences probably correlates quite well with economic factors. Are you relying on a public defender or can you hire a more competent lawyer. I would guess the quality of the lawyer and the time they spend on your defense is causal.

All roads seem to veer towards underlying economics. Our minorities need job prospects, full employment.


#62

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