Blessed Virgin Mary apparitions

Hello there!

I’m here to ask why would Blessed Virgin Mary would appear with baby Jesus (according to eyewintesses) in her hands when… Jesus died ADULT and He is ALIVE. Are thos apparitions showing us a false Jesus?

No, of course they are not. Jesus, as God is outside of time, so He is not bound by the same physics, gravity, time that we are. People have devotions to different aspects of god, just as we do to different Saints. The Christ child may speak to someone, the suffering Jesus on the cross, Jesus teaching his apostles, etc. All thse aspects are ways for people to understand God and ways for God to speak to us in the situation we are in. Mary has appeared holding the Infant Jesus, she has appeared by herself, in the company of other Saints, and Jesus has appeared in various aspects. If the church has approved those apparitions, than they are not false. You are not obligated to follow those devotions, but you cannot deny them.

It’s a VISION. It’s not a physical reality. Jesus was an infant - so it’s possible to have a VISION of Jesus as an infant. He was also an adult, so it’s possible to have a VISION of him as an adult. The Church has recognized both.

Jesus and Mary can appear to us as they see fit. Hopefully they appear to others when these others see you.

There is a tradition in the Roman Rite that according to how St. Mary appears, her physical appearance is also a testimony to her message for the Church during that public apparition. If Jesus is present with her or not, it seems not to belittle the fact that her appearance is as the Mother of the Church.

ie.

Our Lady of Pontmain = a very young, even child like Mary dressed in a modern day robe made of the Heavens, wearing a modern day imperial hat = proclaiming an answer to the prayers of the peasant and childlike faithful of Pontmain, France, suffering from the loss of their Monarchy and years of civil war.

Our Lady of Guadalupe = teen and pregnant Mary dressed as an Aztec princess = many new Christians will be born from these races. (The New World, 16th Century, many appearances in the span of 50 years)

Our Lady of Mt. Carmel = the Queen of Heaven presenting her baby Jesus to the world dressed as a Medieval queen in religious habit = evangelization through the disiplined study of the Gospel mysteries / scriptures (European appearances in the mid Middle Ages, as well as during one of the Fatima, Portugal appearances.)

Our lady of Lourdes, and the Miraculous Medal = middle aged mary dressed modestly in silk robes as a 1st century widow = strengthens the Church through intersession of prayer for an outpouring of God’s grace, many various appearances in this way seem to rebuild the Faith of the followers who she appears to, especially during times of Christian persecution. (France, Egypt… many appearances in the span of a century)

Note: Mary always appears as a Jewess.

Mary has appeared several times, in approved apparitions, as the race/nationality of the people she appeared to. Including Our Lady of Guadalupe, and apparitions in China and other Asian countries. At the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in DC you can see art depicting most (all?) of Mary’s apparitions, and the titles she is known under.

@ Sally

an icon is NOT an apparation.
If you care to argue the point, please get some Church approved references up about your statements please.

Mary appears dressed in a Native garb / costume, but has never changed races. Sometimes, her luminesence is bright, masking her skin complextion, but she is still brown hair, brown eyed, and with an olive complextion.

You and me both. You have not backed up your claim either. :wink:

If she was taken with her body into heaven why would she shift her form? Shouldn’t she show us this one body to show that she is really that one specific Mary and cut off all speculations? It is only one body which she can have and all people who will get new heavenly bodies will have one for each.

Sally,
you used Our lady of Guadalupe in your argument. You are wrong. Should you wish for further proof that you are wrong in your argument, please research your own statment.

Glad that the OP agrees with me. Yes, I can’t see how Our Lady would ever change her Assumed body in her appearances on Earth. It’s pretty cool, imo, that she has some sense of making a fashion statement in Church approved apparations :wink: Peace.

As for Our lady of Lourdes, I mistakenly described her wrong. She is young there in those apparitions. In our lady of La Salette she is a grieving widow.

For your consideration:
maryourmother.net/Guadalupe.html - her skin
maryourmother.net/Lourdes.html - her luminesence / golden cloud
marypages.com/MountCarmel.htm - her heritage

I hope that helps you.

Thank you for those links, but now I have more questions after reading those texts. Should I start a new topics? According to the forum rules I should, I will consider it later.

Now it’s still bothering me if so many people saw different looking Marys then maybe the apparitions show them what they want to see and not the real Mary? I just try to understand it.

First off Mary doesn’t always appear with the baby Jesus in Her hands. Mary appears as to the Veneration of Our Lady She is representing. Be it Our Lady of the Seven Sorrows, Our Lady of Lourdes [Mary did not appear with the baby Jesus] Nor did she at many of the appartions such as Our Lady of Fatima etc. She did re-appear at Pontevedara to Sister Lucy with the baby Jesus

Though She has appeared which the baby Jesus in Her arms it not conclusive in all accounts.

As to ethnic appearence again this is debated. The Bible describes Mary as Black and the first venerated painting by Luke is the Black Madonna which would also be with the baby Jesus.

Nonethelss Skin tone, hair color and eye color vary from the countrys which Mary has appeared as has language. So the idea of appealing to those as the same as them was apparently done for various reasons by the BVM. Comfortability and to place one at ease during a traumatic experienece I would imagine.

At Knock, Our Lady of Silence, what they saw was actually a heavenly vision: a vision of Our Lady, of St. Joseph, of St.John the Evangelist, and of an altar with the Lamb of God!

At Mt Carmel the Blessed Mother appeared and Her hair was described as Red or Blond.

The Tilma of Our Lady Guadalupe not only shows She has Dark hair/ Blue eyes but today through digital anaylsis men could be seen in the relection of Her eyes.

But to answer you question, No, Mary appears to them in what would be a most acceptable form to them, and in their language as mentioned. Why would she appear in Africa with Blonde Hair, Blue Eyes speaking English which possible only a limited number could understand? This is how I was made to undrstand the mytical realm of this.

God Bless, Gary

I also wonder why when Mary appears, she looks like a different races. Sometimes very dark, sometimes very light with light skin and hair. At least that is how she is described by the seers. I can’t understand this, although the apostles didn’t recognize Jesus a couple of times after the resurrection! So He must have looked different. but of course, Mary isn’t the Risen Lord. I ponder about it, but remember that we do not have to believe in these apparitions to be faithful to God. so when it gets too confusing, I just try to focus on Jesus and the Eucharist.

A question to consider, is first of all this isn’t the original “flesh” physical body of the Blessed Mother appearing. Is it the Holy Spirit appearing through Mary as an apparition?

This is what been thought at Fatima and the various areas when Sister Lucy continued to recieve these enounters through her life.

She also witnessed Jesus Christ appear to her a little boy in the Flesh, not an apparition, and not once but twice.

She also witnessed the Trinity appear to her as the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So to a limited degree we are trying to understand what an omnipotent God can do? Pretty much would be lacking in our imagination. Especially considering your imagination is from God.

Gary,

your statements are wrong.

Mt. Carmel - she always appears with brown hair and brown eyes.
Same with Our Lady of Guadalupe. Please refer to the links above that I provided, and do some research on your own. Even in the recent apparation of Our lady of America, vhttp://www.ourladyofamerica.org/explanation.php in the 50’s, she has brown eyes.

There is always a clear difference between Mary appearing / manifiesting, and a vision! Visions can be influenced by the seer, apparitions can not.

Also,** the OP created a thread to discuss Apparitions of St. Mary. We are not discussing visions, icons, or art. We are discussing her appearance during her Earthly visits when she appears in her glorified body, with Jesus. ** Peace.

Dwinar,
that is an excellent question! I do know that Jesus has appeared in visions to Saints, but I’m pretty sure that if he manifests himself (like say, he did with St. Padre Pio), it’s always in a form of pre crucifixtion. I think, imho, that is because when Jesus returns to judge and reign on Earth, it will be in his ressurected and glorified body. He doesn’t want to create any type of mixed message by returning in his glorified body?

Jesus did say, “And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” Matt 28:20
and angels said that, “This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will return in the same way as you have seen him going into heaven.” Acts 1:11

Jesus assended into heaven in his glorified and ressurected body, by a cloud. So, I think, he can appear in any form he wishes, but will not appear on Earth in his glorified and ressurected body until it’s time to judge and reign.

Have you researched this idea, or asked an apologist?

Sounds somewhat logical. I need to think about it. And about the apologist, I can’t use the “ask question” option, it says I don’t have privilages. I guess it’s because I’m a trial member.

The Virgin Mary is a blue eyed teenage girl that appears taller than she is because she stands on a cloud.

That is according to a new book that has carried out exclusive interviews with the the visionaries of Medjugorje, who first saw her 30 years ago this year when they were schoolchildren.

Fatima? No Baby Jesus

Lucia, Francisco & Jacinta

During World War I Pope Benedict XV made repeated but forlorn pleas for peace, and finally, in May 1917, made a direct appeal to Mary to intercede for peace in the world. The response was Mary’s first appearance at Fatima just over a week later. At this time Fatima was just a small village about seventy miles north of Lisbon; the three children to whom she appeared were Lucia dos Santos, aged ten, and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto, brother and sister, aged eight and seven respectively.
The Angel of Portugal

However, it was in the spring of the previous year, 1916, that the children had their first joint supernatural encounter as a means of preparing them for their meetings with Mary. As they were looking after the sheep one day they saw a dazzlingly beautiful young man, seemingly made of light, who told them he was the Angel of Peace; he invited them to pray with him.

Later on, in the summer, the Angel again appeared to the children and encouraged them to pray and make sacrifices, as a way of drawing down peace on the country.

In the autumn the children again saw the Angel as they were out looking after the sheep. He appeared before them holding a chalice in his hands, above which was suspended a host from which drops of blood were falling into the chalice. The Angel left the chalice suspended in the air and prostrated himself before it in prayer.

He then gave the host to Lucia to eat, and let Francisco and Jacinta drink from the chalice whilst saying: “Take and drink the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, horribly outraged by ungrateful men. Repair their crimes and console your God.” Then he prostrated himself again in prayer before disappearing. The children did not tell anyone about these visits of the Angel, feeling an interior necessity of keeping quiet about these events.

13 May 1917

On 13 May 1917 the three children took their flocks out to pasture on the small area known as the Cova da Iria. After lunch and the rosary they suddenly saw a bright flash of something like lightning, followed quickly by another flash in the clear blue sky.

They looked up to see in Lucia’s words, “a lady, clothed in white, brighter than the sun, radiating a light more clear and intense than a crystal cup filled with sparkling water, lit by burning sunlight.” The children stood there amazed, bathed in the light that surrounded the apparition, as the Lady smiled and said: “Do not be afraid, I will not harm you.” Lucia as the oldest asked her where she came from.

The Lady pointed to the sky and said: “I come from heaven.” Lucia then asked her what she wanted: “I have come to ask you to come here for six months on the 13th day of the month, at this same hour. Later I shall say who I am and what I desire. And I shall return here yet a seventh time.”

Lucia then asked if they would go to heaven and she was told yes, she and Jacinta would go to heaven, but Francisco would need to say many rosaries first. The Lady then said: “Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the conversion of sinners?” Lucia as spokesman for all three readily agreed: “Then you are going to have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort.”

Lucia recounted that at the same moment as she said these words the Lady opened her hands and streamed a “light” on the children which allowed them to see themselves in God. The Lady finished with a request: “Say the Rosary every day, to bring peace to the world and the end of the war.” With that she began to rise into the air, moving towards the east until she disappeared.

Sounds like an assumption to me. No baby Jesus at all apparition and not always the same. You’ll have to “factually” prove this, instead of stating its so because you said so?

God Bless, Gary

I believe it was at Knock where Mary appeared as an adult and many other apparitions as a youth teen age.

Theres is no consistancy that Mary appears appears exactly the same and appears the same all the time. Matter of fact I’ve never heard that but on this post.

God Bless, Gary

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