Blessed Virgin Mary Gave Birth To The Christ Child Miraculously

I had read somewhere in the writings of Saint Basil who states that when it came time for Mary to actually give birth to the Christ Child; she did so miraculously. In other words she did not have to give birth in the same physical manner as all women who bear an infant from their womb. Where Mary had miraculously conceived by the Power of the Holy Spirit. And when she gave birth in the manger, it was also miraculous that the Christ-Child appeared in front of Mary and Joseph’s eyes without the need of physical child birth.

The Church certainly teaches that Mary was a virgin before, during and after the birth of her
Child. Maybe He came out through her abdomen; that would have been miraculous… It
would have preserved her virginity, and dignity. It would be a violation of the laws of nature,
but God is in charge. Some Shroud scholars say that the image seems to have been formed
as our Lords resurrected body passed through the fabric of the Shroud, or vise versa. That would be the same sort of miracle. At least, its something for us to ponder.

If the Fall hadnt happened, might all children have been born the same way as Marys…?

We have to remember that Mary’s virginity is about her relationship with man, not her motherhood. St. Basil had this opinion. However, the Church has never made a definitive statement on St. Basil’s opinion.

We simply do not know how Jesus was born. Assuming that he descended down the birth canal, it would not have affected Mary’s virginity nor her dignity. There is nothing undignified in natural birth.

What we can safely assume is that she gave birth without labor pains, since labor pains were a product of original sin. Mary, not having original sin, was liberated from such pain. There is no mention in scripture that Eve was to give birth any other way than through the birth canal. What Genesis does tell us is that as a consequence for her sin, she will bear her children with pain.

This leaves open the question whether Mary delivered through natural birth, without pain or did Jesus emerge from her through some supernatual means.

In the end, it’s not that important how he left the womb. What is important is that he is fully human and that she is truly his biological mother.

Have a blessed Christmas

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

If Marys Son had decended down the birth canal, her virginity would have been violated. Her hymen... And even if she didnt have one…

Regarding dignity, I meant her dignity during the actual birth.
As an aside, do some mothers who give birth in the natural way suffer embarrassment?
Just a curiosity Question.

And fully God. Mary is the Theotokos.

Regarding dignity, I meant her dignity during the actual birth.
As an aside, do some mothers who give birth in the natural way suffer embarrassment?
Just a curiosity Question

This is why Saint Basil amongst other Saints like Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Saint Augustine believe that due to the Blessed Virgin Mary’s miraculous (“supernatural”) Conception, her actual birth of the Christ-Child would also be assumed supernatural.
If a number of saints can make this assumption it must have been revealed to them interiorly by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There is no official Church Dogma that teaches this, nor does the Church really have too, considering what is most important that our Beloved Savior has been Born to save the souls of all humanity.
As for Mary; she treasured all these things in her heart.

Have a Blessed Merry Christmas.

Just one note here. The breaking of the hymen does not take away a woman’s virginity. Today, the hymen is often broken for certain medical procedures and examinations.

Virginity has to do with sexual intercourse, not the condition of the hymen. As far as dignity during child birth, there is nothing more beautiful than childbirth. It speaks about the dignity of woman and motherhood.

Again, while it is true that some saints do hold to the idea that Jesus was not born through natural childbirth, the Church has no position on it, because it would take nothing from either Mary or Jesus if he had and there is not proof that he was not born that way. In either case, the important thing is that God breaks into human history as a human being. That is what we celebrate.

Merry Christmas to all!

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

I had heard from some source, I don’t remember where, that when Mary gave birth to Jesus his passing through her hymen was “like light through glass” and left her unaffected.

That’s why the Church makes no pronouncement on this point. There are so many stories and legends that no one knows. We’ll just have to wait until we get to heaven to find out.

Merry Christmas,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

JR:
I know that the breaking of the hymen doesnt nesessarily mean that a woman is not a virgin, and that it can happen during all sorts of activities eg horseriding, but I still wouldnt
mind betting that Marys body shows external proof that it is virginal. In any case, as long as we remain within the Churchs teachings, it doesn`t hurt to speculate, and who knows,
it might even provide some food for thought for the folks who deny her perpetual virginity.

I think we should remind ourselves that it was God who designed our human bodies, and the human processes, for example childbirth, before the Fall.

As Br JR rightly says, the state of the hymen has no bearing on virginity as the hymen can be broken without loss of virginity, even horse riding has been known to break the hymen. Unfortunately some ignorant peoples have used the state of the hymen to prove virginity.

It comforts me to know that Christ was born as any man, it reminds me that he is a human being as well as being God. There is no hint in the Scriptures that there was some special exemption for Christ to by-pass certain female anatomy as he was being born (that smacks to me as unnecessary prudery). There is nothing wrong with the way God designed us to be born.

roveau, near neighbour:
as long as we don`t forget that the Church teaches (Dogma) that Mary was a virgin before,
DURING, and after the birth of her Son.

Anyway, Im no theologian, so its probably time to bow out. Haven`t had lunch yet, either.

PS: Are U getting some of this drizzle?
PPS: Have U signed the MANHATTAN DECLARATION yet?

The teaching of the church is that Mary was still physically a virgin after Jesus’ birth, and also that she suffered no injury or bleeding during the birth. (This does imply an intact hymen). Several years ago I questioned this on the ETWN ask the experts forum. Fr. Most (now deceased) kindly sent me the relevant citations from church documents, which I don’t have saved on this computer. I had not understood that the teaching was this specific.

As to the exact manner of the birth, I prefer to imagine it as being similar to the way most women give birth. To me, this doesn’t imply any loss of dignity. We really just don’t know what Mary experienced when she gave birth. She was without sin, her Son was God Himself. His conception was without precedent. His birth could have been totally miraculous or there could even have been a midwife present who just thought it was a remarkably easy birth.

God does the most surprising things!

As to the exact manner of the birth, I prefer to imagine it as being similar to the way most women give birth. To me, this doesn’t imply any loss of dignity.

**It would be far from me to take away the dignity and even in the most sublime sense of picturing a husband in the presence of his wife witnessing the actual birth a new born infant coming into the world. How many wives and husbands have shared tears of happiness in the Labor and Delivery room of a hospital over the physical nature of childbirth and seeing a new life coming into the world as a gift from God? Many times I’m sure. **

Personally; I see human childbirth as the greatest miraculous gift God can give to both a woman with her husband close by her side in the bonds of true love.

In Speaking about the Divinity of Christ’s Birth
The most important message of the nativity of Jesus Christ is his Divine Birth. (Matthew 1: 18) -before they came together, she was found with child of The Holy Ghost.”
(Matthew 1: 20) “- for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”
(Luke 1: 35) “-The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of The Highest shall overshadow thee: Therefore also That Holy Thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the son of God.”
Well, Mary was conceived by the heavenly, spiritual and miraculous power of the Holy Spirit of God and not by the seed of any human. Therefore the conception in her womb was of the Holy Ghost. And that was why Jesus was the child of The Holy Ghost of God Almighty. The Holy Ghost descended on her and came upon her and entered her womb; and all this while the power of the Highest had been overshadowing her; and that was why Jesus Christ was called “That Holy Thing” or The “Son of God”.
(Isa. 7: 14) “- Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” The result of the conception of the virgin shall be Immanuel which means ‘God with us.’ This word ‘Immanuel’ testifies the conception of the womb of Mary by the power of God. (Isa. 9: 6) “-and his name shall be called wonderful, counselor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” Therefore “This child” or “This Son” was born miraculously by the power of The Holy Ghost. This wonderful child was nothing else except The Mighty God himself and the Everlasting Father. Yes, the Word which was God came into Flash (John 1:1-14). No other human being was ever born of The Holy Ghost except God himself, The Immanuel who was named ‘Jesus’.
But the heathen and gentile world believes otherwise. They believe and assert about the birth of Jesus quite differently. They say Jesus was an illegitimate, a child born of the seed of a man who mated with Mary before her marriage.
Be, it known to the whole world what Mary said to the Gabriel, “- How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?”(Luke 1: 34). This was told to Gabriel by Mary before ever she was espoused to Joseph. Moreover a true account and statement is given by the authors belonging the time place and occasion of the days of Jesus in this wise “When his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”(Matthew 1: 18). Therefore the whole account of the conception of Mary is evidently clear. She was conceived by the power of The Holy Ghost before she was ever espoused to Joseph (Luke 1: 35). She was espoused to Joseph while she was with child of the Holy Ghost. Therefore the (“Conception and the Birth”) of Jesus were not from human seed but by the miraculous power of The Holy Spirit of God Almighty.

I thought I would be quite embarassed giving birth…but it turned out I was in too much pain and too focused to care.

I think the fact that we don’t know about the actual birthing process of Jesus, is God protecting the dignity of Mary. Giving birth is literally a lot of “blood, sweat, & tears” at least from what I remember. From what I do know of Our Blessed Lady-I would think to suffer labor pains would be preferable to her. She never thought of herself as any better than anyone of us. Also as a mother myself I think that while to suffer labor pains is yes a consequence of original sin there is also that ‘special something’ that is instilled in us as mothers which of course Mary had perfectly.

But that is just my way of thinking-I could be way off the mark.

Lainey:
thanks for relating your own experience.
Im certain, though, that the Church teaches that Mary didnt suffer the pangs of childbirth,
.
Came across an interesting comment in an article a few minutes back; there is an ancient
Jewish tradition that Moses mother didnt suffer birth pangs, and thats why Moses birth
wasn`t betrayed to the Egyptians. The inference is that, as Jesus is the New Moses, His
mother would also have been spared. Plus, of course, she was free from Original Sin.

One or two earlier posters inferred that I was a prude and Manichean. My only concern
was for our Lady herself. I`m not disputing the beauty of sexual relations between hus-
band and wife, and what follows. Apparently hormones are released in the mother during
intercourse, childbirth and feeding her children. Mothers: what an awesome thing you
undertake!

As far as the Manichean bit goes, I did mention the late Pope`s “Theology of the Body”,
which is a great giftt to us from JPII. It caused me to develop a much greater respect
for Woman.

I`m too %@&% thin skinned.

Anyway, it`s good to be able to talk about this sort of thing in a civilised way.

Lainey:
thanks for relating your own experience.
Its certain, though, that the Church teaches that Mary didnt suffer the pangs of childbirth.
.
Came across an interesting comment in an article a few minutes back; there is an ancient
Jewish tradition that Moses mother didnt suffer birth pangs, and thats why Moses birth
wasn`t betrayed to the Egyptians. The inference is that, as Jesus is the New Moses, His
mother would also have been spared. Plus, of course, she was free from Original Sin.

An earlier poster inferred that I was a prude . My only concern was for our Lady herself.
I`m not disputing the beauty of sexual relations between husband and wife, and what
follows. Mothers: what an awesome thing you undertake!

The late Pope`s “Theology of The Body” is also awesome. It caused me to develop a
much greater respect for Woman.

Anyway, it`s good to be able to talk about this sort of thing in a civilised way.

Oh boy SunnaB16…I didn’t mean to make it about me. :blush: With that being said I didn’t realize it was actual church teaching about the virgin birth…I really like what you wrote above about Moses. I think it is pretty awesome how the Old Testament & the New Testament are so connected to Jesus

Stanley Huerhaus has some very interesting comments on Mary and the Virgin Birth in his opening chapters on Matthew.

You can fiind them here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/10/02/book-recommendation-matthew-brazos-theological-commentary-on-the-bible-by-stanley-hauerwas/

scroll down to get to the topic immediately

“God’s actuality means that any attempt to explain, to render the virgin birth explicable in naturalistic terms, is a mistake. Just as we cannot explain creation we cannot and should not try to explain how Jesus can at once be fully God and fully man. Nicaea and Chalcedon do not explain the Trinity and incarnation, but rather they teach us how to speak of the mystery of God without explanation.”

dj

Assuming that Jesus was born through the birth canal.

  1. Mary suffered no labor pains, because these are a product of original sin. She did not have original sin.

  2. She did not suffer an indignation, because motherhood is far from shameful. If Pope John Paul II could understand the beauty and mysticism behind giving birth, how much more so would Mary and Joseph understood it?

Assuming that she gave birth some other way

  1. Does it matter?

In the end, this thread is not really very helpful. What is more important is that God is born a vulnerable human baby so that we may not fear him. And that today, he continues to make his presence in the womb of many women, as a vulnerable human baby, and his life is threatened by abortion, just as his life was threatened by Herod 2000 years ago.

The mystery of Christ’s birth is not about how he came out of Mary’s womb, but about why. The why should move us to great acts of adoration and a great desire to achieve the perfection of charity, beginning with charity and compassion toward the vulnerable.

Let us build mangers for every unwanted child.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :slight_smile:

Thanks, Lainey.
Dont blush! If you had known about the "during", we would not have found the little gem about Moses mother. So, we both gained something.
So much treasure out there for us still to find!

JR: There IS something that matters, and that is the painfully obvious fact that the majority
of Catholics are not aware of the DURING bit. As well as being Dogma, its safer to know the truth, so that we dont get egg on our faces when dealing with non-Catholics.

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