Blessed Virgin Mary: pain in childbirth?


#1

Okay, so I have been reading about this topic (among others) a little and I am finding that some people say that the Blessed Virgin Mary experienced no pain in giving birth to Our Lord because she was conceived without Original Sin and all. I understand that, but how does this match up with Revelation 12:2: “She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.”?
Thanks in advance.

:slight_smile:


#2

Revelation 12 also refers to The Church


#3

The things in the Book of Revelation are for the most part figurative and mystical. They should be read as such. I don’t really think that the account which you cite is or ever was meant to be an account of the Virgin birth of Christ.

And no, the curse which fell on Eve wouldn’t have effected at all Mary as she was freed from the effects of Original sin prior to her Conception. It was after all, Immaculate.

Having given birth several times in my life it is an interesting thing to ponder though. Being a mom is something I share in common with the Queen of Heaven. I kinda like that as a woman. Braggin’ rights. Sorry guys.

Glenda


#4

I have always read Gen 3:16 as, “I will greatly increase (multiply, etc) your pains…” which would seem to imply that labour pains were there beforehand, but now God’s sort of ramping it up, as it were. But I don’t know enough about Hebrew to take it back to the original language, so that could be a translation error. But I would think that, if any pain was the curse, Scripture wouldn’t use the language we find in Gen 3:16.

Another interpretation that I’ve heard is that, in Rev, Mary’s pain and wailing is not physical, but emotional. She weeps for her child (if you had to give birth in front of a dragon, you’d be scared, too) and for the Church, and “the woman” as the Church weeps.

That’s just me and my pious speculation, though. I would like to think Mary had a swift and easy time bringing Jesus into the world, but perhaps she wept to know that she had no better place for the Son of God than a stable. She wept because she feared He would be cold, she wept because she was frightened of what people would think. There are many pains Mary could have felt that were not physical. But I think, this side of Judgment, we won’t know for sure.


#5

In the description of Jesus’ birth in the manger, it also mentions Mary experiencing pain during giving birth.


#6

All those who helped lead up to and were a part of the beginning of the Church (prophets, apostles, etc.) had much travail and pain in being instrumental in the “birth” of the Church.


#7

It does? Where? Which book, chapter and verse?


#8

I haven’t seen that in the Gospels, because it isn’t there.

Perhaps it was in a gnostic gospel? (made up years later with many errors).

Or, as in the movie “The Nativity Story”? It was not presented by Catholics, and so Mary was depicted as having labor pains.


#9

How about good ol’ Isaiah 66

7** Before she was in labor
she gave birth
before her pain came upon her
she was delivered of a son.**

8 Who has heard of such a thing?
Who has seen such things?

.


#10

Thank you! So Isaiah prophesied Mary had no labor pains!


#11

This is a matter of choice, you can believe Mary had labor pains at birth. There is no official Catholic dogma on this. I for one believe that Mary did have labor pains. Also Revelation 12 has a triple meaning to it. It’s symbolism for Mary, the Church, and Israel, as Jimmy Akin and former Pope Benedict put it.


#12

I don’t know if Mary had pains or not. The pains described in Revelation might have been spiritual pains, as Mary had lots of time before the nativity to research the scriptures and find out about what was happening. She may have experienced a lot of dread over the fate of her future son.

I’m not fresh on the topic, but the pains that the Church or Israel experienced wouldn’t have been physical labor pains, but spiritual pain in some fashion.

Last summer I read some theology books about Mary (I am just a general reader) and I think there was some sense across the centuries that Mary did not have labor pain. But, I don’t recall whether that was scriptural based on Isaiah or mystical thoughts.


#13

I am inclined to believe that insofar as the passage from the Apocalypse applies to Mary, her pain in childbirth should be attributed to the sword that would pierce her soul, as Simeon prophesied.

And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed. (Luke 2:34-35)


#14

Depends how you read the use of “before.” It could be used differently, like “Before his very eyes, stood an angel” or something like that.

Btw I believe I was indeed recalling to mind the movie that depicts Mary in pain while laboring.


#15

Yes, it most likely was the movie. :slight_smile:


#16

=CruceSignati;12060974]Okay, so I have been reading about this topic (among others) a little and I am finding that some people say that the Blessed Virgin Mary experienced no pain in giving birth to Our Lord because she was conceived without Original Sin and all. I understand that, but how does this match up with Revelation 12:2: “She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.”?
Thanks in advance.

:slight_smile:

THAT IS CORRECT. NO PAIN:)

WHY?

Read Genesis 3:16

Pain in Childbirth is a DIRECT result of Original sim.

Mary did not have Original [or any other] sin, so she would have been soared the pains of normal childbirth.:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
Patrick


#17

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