Blood of Christ in Alternative Vessel


#63

No, I wasn’t talking about merely diluting it, but adding a sufficient quantity of water such that the accidents of wine no longer are present – and therefore, the Precious Blood would no longer be present.

[quote]
So purifying the individual glasses in a larger container the way you describe it after Mass is not allowed. [/quote]
Strictly speaking, what I described wouldn’t be purification, per se. It would be akin to what is typically done with a purificator or other linen, when the Precious Blood is spilled onto it.


#64

When I first read your suggestion, Gorgias, I thought it was a good idea.

But thinking about it a bit more, I’ve changed my mind.

Surely the first rinsing with water has to be drunk. to avoid any Precious Blood going down the sink? Using the comparison with rinsing a purificator doesn’t work, as any marks on them which could possibly be from the Precious Blood would be just from the ‘accidents’ i.e. the colour.

Whereas pouring water into the chalices after Holy Communion means it is coming into direct contact with any drops of Precious Blood left in the chalice i.e. the substance’.


#65

Actually, on the first cleansing, the deacon rinses everything with water and consumes the water. On the second cleansing, the chalices and ciboria are rinsed in a sink that usually feeds into the ground. The third cleansing involves soap.


#66

Well, I’m not sure it’s a good idea; more like a thought experiment…

No, on two accounts. First of all, it would never go “down the sink” (although the sacrarium would be OK, but in this case I’m thinking a large enough quantity of water that you wouldn’t want to pour it down the sacrarium).

Second, picture the few drops left in the bottom of a glass. (OK… many glasses.) Then picture the glasses in a large container (a pot, or whatever), and the pot filled with water. There would be no discernible accidents of wine in that pot, and therefore, the Eucharist would no longer be present. So, in a very literal way, there’s no “Precious Blood” going anywhere. Out of respect to the sacrament that had been present, though, I’d think that you’d want to pour the water directly to ground.

Again, this isn’t a discussion of purification, per se.


#67

I am trying to picture the priest or deacon purifying 100 tiny chalices during Mass. And as a sacristan I would resign from duty immediately if the priest suggested using the individual chalices (which are not allowed anyways).


#68

Yeah. Purifying, as such, would be near impossible.

Hmm… I don’t remember reading anywhere that “individual chalices are not allowed”… :thinking:


#69

They are not prohibited from what I can see, but pouring the Precious Blood from one container and using glass containers is prohibited according to Redemptionis Sacramentum.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#_ftnref191


#70

Right. But, giving the bishop the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he gave permission for a special occasion. (And, to tell the truth, if they were going to use a bunch of ‘small chalices’, then there’s no reason to have poured already consecrated Precious Blood from a single container to all the small chalices – better to have poured into the small chalices before consecration.)


#71

How about “individual chalices” is a solution in search of a problem.

To purchase noble vessels, lined with gold or silver, to attempt to distribute them to the faithful, people complain about Mass taking too long just imagine that the Priest/Deacon/EMHC has to go to the Altar and retrieve each chalice one by one for 400 communicants. How large wound the Altar have to be? The danger of bumping one of them and a domino effect of goblets falling over on the Altar. Boggles the mind how someone could think this is a good idea.

When there is an epidemic or it is flu season, suspend the Chalice for the faithful. Problem solved.


#72

There is “sign value” to be considered; that’s why we have common cups instead of individual ones.
I Corinthians 10:17
Galatians 3:28


#73

You mean like how we have a ‘common loaf’ instead of individual wafers? :thinking: :wink:

LOL! :+1:


#74

Some parishes do. It’s also why there’s a fraction rite where the priest breaks his host before we receive ours. True, the individual hosts take away from the sign value, but that is one of the reasons for the common cup… I just wish I could remember where I read that before.


#75

Latin Rite parishes?

Hmm… the reason for the fraction rite is to bring the elements together – Body (host) and Blood (in the chalice) reunited, no?


#76

Yes, Latin parishes. Few and far between, I admit, but there are some out there.

The concomitance brings the elements together, but that’s not the only reason for the fraction rite. As with most things within our faith (and ogres), it’s like an onion - multiple layers.


#77

Fair enough. :+1:


#78

When the Precious Blood is brought to the sick by a priest, it is common to use a sort of sacred straw or waterdropper, so that the sick person does not have to touch the chalice in any way, or have trouble swallowing. I am trying to think of the word for this…

Fistula seems to be the word. It is a little gold water dropper, shaped like a straw. Father caps the fistula straw with his finger and then puts the fistula’s open end into the chalice so it sucks up the Blood; and then he drops the Blood onto the communicant’s tongue, with no physical contact between the tongue and the fistula or chalice. (Or his finger and the Blood.)

There are also intinction spoons. Self-intinction is forbidden for non-priests, so Father would have to feed her.


#79

not juice, but “must”, unfermented wine that would ferment.

In particular, unfermented is permitted for alcoholic priests.


#80

Can she wear a surgical mask and only lower it for Holy Communion?


#81

Surgical masks do not have any part to play in preventing you from catching an infection. Their role is to prevent you from passing on infections (which is why surgeons wear them).


#82

Well cancer patients wear them often when they have or are undergoing chemo and they must be around the general population. The mask works both ways for both purposes.


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