Bloody Sunday report published

The Bloody Sunday killings were unjustified and unjustifiable, the Prime Minster has said.

Thirteen marchers were shot dead on 30 January 1972 in Londonderry when British paratroopers opened fire on crowds at a civil rights demonstration.

Fourteen others were wounded, one later died. The Saville Report is heavily critical of the Army and found that soldiers fired the first shot.

Prime Minister David Cameron said he was "deeply sorry".

He said that the findings of the Saville Report were "shocking".

A huge cheer erupted in Guildhall Square in Derry as Mr Cameron delivered the findings which unequivocally blamed the Army for one of the most controversial days in Northern Ireland's history.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/northern_ireland/10320609.stm

Excuse me for been just moderately cynical admidst all the hoopla about this report...

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:2, topic:202025"]
Excuse me for been just moderately cynical admidst all the hoopla about this report...

[/quote]

It took the British govt 38 yrs to "notice" the facts and publish them?

You have every right to your cynicism.

As long as those who's family members died (or were wounded) on Bloody Sunday find closure and/or are satisfied. They are the ones who's opinions and feelings count after all is said and done.

I'd like to know what they all think.

[quote="CatholicFireman, post:4, topic:202025"]
As long as those who's family members died (or were wounded) on Bloody Sunday find closure and/or are satisfied. They are the ones who's opinions and feelings count after all is said and done.

I'd like to know what they all think.

[/quote]

Many of the family members of those who died are long buried themselves now. Let's just say I view the whole thing as an exercise in spin. I though am a fairly hard-core republican who still holds to what I view as an essential truth - that Britain has no part in the governance of any part of Ireland.

As an irishman i am glad for the families and pray this brings them closure if not peace.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:5, topic:202025"]
Many of the family members of those who died are long buried themselves now. Let's just say I view the whole thing as an exercise in spin. I though am a fairly hard-core republican who still holds to what I view as an essential truth - that Britain has no part in the governance of any part of Ireland.

[/quote]

Yes, indeed.
38 yrs past the slaughter and a generation is commonly defined as 20 yrs.
So nearly two generations have been born since the slaughter.
Imagine how many of the oldest of surviving relatives have already died.

[quote="catharina, post:7, topic:202025"]
Yes, indeed.
38 yrs past the slaughter and a generation is commonly defined as 20 yrs.
So nearly two generations have been born since the slaughter.
Imagine how many of the oldest of surviving relatives have already died.

[/quote]

Even the brothers and sisters of those who died are in many cases now almost at retirement age. We should also remember this is hardly the first Bloody Sunday in Irish history either. It is convenient right now for the UK to issue an apology. The event is four decardes old and most younger people regard it and Irish politics as of minor import. It is safe to issue an apology at this point and for David Cameron to pat himself on the back for doing so. It's great PR but ultimately meaningless at this point.

[quote="Dpoc41, post:6, topic:202025"]
As an irishman i am glad for the families and pray this brings them closure if not peace.

[/quote]

I do too. Pax†

I was 15 and within a few months of sitting the Irish state exams known as the Intermediate Certificate when Bloody Sunday happened. I remember the terrible anger mixed with despair that these killings evoked throughout Ireland and the widespread fury when the now infamous Widgery report basically exonerated the Paras and blamed the victims. After that, and in the face of such blatant injustice, young nationalists were increasingly drawn to violent political groups.

Watching the families of the victims on the Irish news here this evening, I found myself choking with mixed emotions: joy that they are finally vindicated, sadness and anger that this day has been so long in coming, and admiration for their incredible courage and determination for almost forty years.

Someone said on FB this evening that Bishop Edward Daly said it was a day of healing - he was standing with the Church of Ireland bishop, Ken Good who played a blinder today with the families etc - and Bishop Daly also said that he was quite stunned at how good PM Cameron's speech was. He watched it with the family of John (Jackie) Duddy (17). who was shot in the chest in the car park of Rossville flats, and whom then Fr Daly tried to get out to hospital, waving his white hankerchief in an event captured in a now iconic photograph of that day.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:8, topic:202025"]
Even the brothers and sisters of those who died are in many cases now almost at retirement age. We should also remember this is hardly the first Bloody Sunday in Irish history either. It is convenient right now for the UK to issue an apology. The event is four decardes old and most younger people regard it and Irish politics as of minor import. It is safe to issue an apology at this point and for David Cameron to pat himself on the back for doing so. It's great PR but ultimately meaningless at this point.

[/quote]

So...they should have just never given an apology? I understand the cynicism, but it may be a bit much. From the other posts and articles I've read, it does seem to mean something to the families of the victims. I hope it leads to some healing of very deep wounds.

[quote="rlg94086, post:11, topic:202025"]
So...they should have just never given an apology? I understand the cynicism, but it may be a bit much. From the other posts and articles I've read, it does seem to mean something to the families of the victims. I hope it leads to some healing of very deep wounds.

[/quote]

If it helps the victims then that is to the good but believe me I am markedly cynical in all dealings the UK has with regards to the troubles in Ireland. Since the families of most of the murder victims are not strong republicans I can understand they have a differing perspective than mine. Were I to be a republcan who was a public name at this point I think I would shy clear as much as possible from commenting on the apology as the victims families deserve peace and quiet.

As YB says this second Bloody Sunday in the 20th century caused much resentment and was effectively the biggest single recruiting tool for the IRA for some time afterwards as people become severely embittered. Unfortunately using the Paras of all people in such a role was likely to end up a disaster as many British officers themselves observed at the time.

Bloody Sunday was part of a familar pattern in Ireland. It remains to be seen whether the last few years of peace and the assembly in the north will create a new pattern or not. Personally I am not entirely convinced that will be the case ultimately.

An apology from Britain is unexpected and welcomed.

I wish they would apologize for the actions that took place during the four Irish famines of 1740-41, 1845-1852, 1879, and 1905.

After that, they can move on to the rest of the incidents that occurred during the over 800 years of occupation of the island.

It is so hard to put this into words as I remember that day so well as a teenage onlooker via the BBC Television news. The shock, the horror of something that was so obviously obscene..... We all remember that famous photo of Fr. Daly holding a handkerchief in what looked like surrender but was, in fact a cry for help which didn't come quickly enough. To Catholics - Irish, English, Italian, Polish...this was a murder of our brothers and sisters but it was a murder of Irish, living in their native land by the British Army. It was barbaric, heinous and evil. My father, son of an Irish immigrant, was so angry - wanted to go there and do something.

Now, today, at last, an apology and I really felt that it was heartfelt by the Prime Minister. We are in a new page of history in these islands. The truth has come out and has been acknowledged. I pray for a lasting peace in the isle of Ireland; Ulster, Munster. Leinster and Connaught. I think you can tell where I'm coming from. One day justice will be done.

:shamrock2:

As a descendant of Irish emigrants during the famine, never did I hear a kind word about the Brits, and the history of the Brits in Ireland has little good to be said of it.

However, I was obliged to pay some attention to an Irish priest here who knew some of the guys who died in Maze Prison (hope I spelled that right). He had little to say favorable about the Brits, but he did tell me that, during the last half century, the only thing that prevented the Orangemen from taking over all of ireland was the British army. He told me how the No Irish protestants "paid" England for remaining by serving in very large numbers in the British armed forces. He told me that, as a result, the protestants were extraordinarily well trained, as well as being well armed.

So, while no doubt the Brits were, as alleged, responsible for Bloody Sunday, there is also the point of view that they also held the well-organized protestant forces at bay for the most part.

It seems very sad that it took them this long to finish and publish this report. Will the families be compensated in any way due to this report?

Well, as a Jewish half-Italian, half-German Brit, for whom Northern Ireland comprises a collection of hornet nests always waiting to be kicked around, a report like this on McGuinness and a machine gun seemed rather inevitable this week.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:8, topic:202025"]
Even the brothers and sisters of those who died are in many cases now almost at retirement age. We should also remember this is hardly the first Bloody Sunday in Irish history either. It is convenient right now for the UK to issue an apology. The event is four decardes old and most younger people regard it and Irish politics as of minor import. It is safe to issue an apology at this point and for David Cameron to pat himself on the back for doing so. It's great PR but ultimately meaningless at this point.

[/quote]

I think this report is far from meaningless to the families involved. The fact that they are almost 40 years older from when their loved ones were killed is all the more reason for this report. Parents have died knowing that their sons were branded terrorists, and surviving family members have had this hanging over them for many many years.
This report is far from meaningless to them as all those who have died have been declared innocent and hopefuly they can all live the rest of their lives without this cloud hanging over them.

[quote="Ronsatron, post:18, topic:202025"]
I think this report is far from meaningless to the families involved. The fact that they are almost 40 years older from when their loved ones were killed is all the more reason for this report. Parents have died knowing that their sons were branded terrorists, and surviving family members have had this hanging over them for many many years.
This report is far from meaningless to them as all those who have died have been declared innocent and hopefuly they can all live the rest of their lives without this cloud hanging over them.

[/quote]

Far from meaningless, but far more meaningful if they'd been honest immediately after instead of slandering the innocent civilians they murdered in cold blood during a Civil Rights march. The effect that this particular Bloody Sunday has had extended far beyond the families of the victims.

People were pushed further into political extremism, and armed struggle. The Republican Catholic population turned against the British Army who previously were welcomed as it was hoped they'd defend the Catholic population too. And the British media had a field day with all the propaganda opportunities.

To ridgerunner. I wouldn't say that the Brits held back the Unionist Paramilitaries (in fact, they armed them and colluded with them).

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:12, topic:202025"]
If it helps the victims then that is to the good but believe me I am markedly cynical in all dealings the UK has with regards to the troubles in Ireland. Since the families of most of the murder victims are not strong republicans I can understand they have a differing perspective than mine. Were I to be a republcan who was a public name at this point I think I would shy clear as much as possible from commenting on the apology as the victims families deserve peace and quiet.

[/quote]

You're a good man.

I heard the relatives speak on the radio.

Seems like there's a split. For some, that's it - they wanted it publically acknowledged that their son/brother/uncle/father was not a terrorist. That alone seems to have allowed them some peace.

For others, it seems like this will be the launchpad for a very protracted, very messy, very stifled legal procedings.

More years of anguish for the relatives concerned.

I will however have a large slice of your cynicism, with coffee - straight from the pot please.

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