I figured I would start a new thrEad to clear up some misconceptions about what I wrote, in my previous thread, on Bob Sungenis—My main point is and was, that Bob’s statement , “I would not say that it is an impossibilty that someone who is not(water) baptized cant get to heaven.” While technically he is saying that one can be saved who is not water baptized (thus affirminG baptism of desire) his approach is very sloppy in this statement… What if someone where to say --“I would not say that the Catholic church doesnt teach that Mary remained a virgin her entire life.” Of course you wouldnt say that–cauSe it is clear the Church teaches that Mary remained a virgin her entire life. the statement seems to imply that one could Argue the opposite–Sungenis’s statement also gives that impression-at least in my opinion it does–it implies one could argue that water baptism is alwAys necessary—which is simply not the teaching of the Church–(THAT’S FEENEYISM) Bob is very precise he should know better— these other clowns may let you get away with it–but not me BOBBY!!! NOT ME!!
Outside the Church there is no salvation
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the ChurchFathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Now, both the VATII document and the CCC use the word “affirmation”.
Yet we know from all Tradition in the RCC that it is always referred to as a DOGMA.
So, can I, lilke you say VATII and the CCC etc. is SLOPPY and imprecise on this most important DOGMA ?
1 to state something as true:
The suspect affirmed (that) he had been at home all evening.
She affirmed her intention to apply for the post.
2 to publicly state your support for an opinion or idea:
The government has affirmed its commitment to equal rights.
We welcome the government’s affirmation of its intention to act.
a fixed, especially religious, **belief **or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts
Notice that the dictionary never relates affirmation to dogma as a synonym.
So, is the “Outside the Church there is no salvation” an affirmation or a proper DOGMA?
I can find countless “sloppy” theology, by your standards throughout the VATII documents and the CCC and those of JPII. All I have to do is interpret them as you do Sungenis, and VOILA, the Church teaches heresy, and denies a DOGMA reducing it to a mere affirmation.
Again, JPII says that Islam and He believe in the same God. Does that mean JPII just denied the Trinitarian God, as Islam specifically does?
You are not the only one that can play this game.