BOM going against mormon doctrine?


#1

Now, the BOM is what the mormons teach from and say all the truth is in the book. One of those teachings is that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all different gods, not one. But in the book of mormon, it says many times they are one God and not three, for example, in the testimony for the golden plates, Alma 11: 26-29 44 Mosiah (sp)27 : 31, 3 Nephi 11: 14-17 36. Makes you wonder if it is the whole truth for the mormons themselfs. Very interesting, and also, they are worshiping Jesus, which is heresy in the the mormon church. :hmmm: I would like to hear from mormons, and everybody else too.


#2

Victor,
First of all, we DO NOT believe the Book of Mormon contains all truth but we DO believe that what it does contain is scripture and true. I’ve corrected you before on this but you don’t seem to be listening.

Anyway, the Book of Mormon does indeed refer to the godhead as “one God” as you’ve suggested and we believe this. Those scriptures are in perfect harmony with the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. The explanation is that we believe them to be separate beings that are one in purpose. This doctrine is found in all our standard works including the Bible (see John 17:5-11).


#3

I am going to reproduce a post I made on this recently on another board. It seems very applicable.

I believe the term homoousian as it originally emerged from Nicea is quite compatible with LDS understanding. Eusebius (who was a semi-Arian ultimately) related the Nicea decision by explaining that a father and son are homoousian.

For the purposes of discussion this with non-LDS Christians I have tried to develop the following terms.

“Me-you-oneness” this is the meaning that was embraced by most bishops as they emerged from Nicea. LDS most definitely believe that God the Father and God the Son are one substance in this respect.

“Me-me-oneness” there are components of this idea that seem to be part of the Trinity as Augustine expressed it. When non-LDS Christians say that the Trinity is one BEING and three persons they seem to point to some type of “me-me-oneness.” This is something that generally gives LDS fits.

I have long agreed with the original poster that if we refuse to define beyond the Bible we can only say something like, “God is one. We know he is one in purpose according to John 17. There are some other pretty powerful expressions of oneness that encourage us to go beyond what John 17 says, but Biblically our path is unclear. Something is there, but exactly what the Bible does not tell us.”

There are two things I like to mention concerning this. LDS who embrace a social Trinity can speak of “me-me-oneness” associated with some type of ethereal single purpose, mind, ….

And, I think the bulk of this controversy resulted from what I believe was a relatively uncritical acceptance of Creation ex Nihilo by the Early Church (Tertullian addressed the issue somewhat extensively Against Hermogenes, but not much else was said to my knowledge. And it was dogmatically defined 1000 years later at the 4th Lateran Council). Without Creation ex Nihilo and its effect upon the radical creator/creature dichotomy that I believe went hand in hand with this, Jesus Christ’s status as fully God would have been much easier to defend.

Charity, TOm


#4

[quote=Casen]Victor,
First of all, we DO NOT believe the Book of Mormon contains all truth but we DO believe that what it does contain is scripture and true. I’ve corrected you before on this but you don’t seem to be listening.

Anyway, the Book of Mormon does indeed refer to the godhead as “one God” as you’ve suggested and we believe this. Those scriptures are in perfect harmony with the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. The explanation is that we believe them to be separate beings that are one in purpose. This doctrine is found in all our standard works including the Bible (see John 17:5-11).
[/quote]

Do you know that you are going against what you are saying. BOM does contain all “truth”, and you are saying my point. YOU said they are three SEPATATE gods yourself, but like with the passages I gave you, it very clearly says that they are all one God and there are no other gods like the mormon doctrine says there are. If it what it contains is all true, then these passages are lying or is my definition of lying different than your view. Doctrine and the truth are suppost to go together, but I guess that doesn’t happen in the mormon church.


#5

Victor,
Did you even read my post? How about TOm’s posts? We gave you sensible responses and you just ignored them and repeated yourself once again like a broken record.


#6

O now I see, you are like all Christians and say there is one God, that is very good. And like normal Christains, you wroship The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirt. Man that takes a lot off my chest, but that reminds me, isn’t heresy to worshop Jesus? And also, wasn’t god a person before and has his own god and so and so on?


#7

[quote=Casen]First of all, we DO NOT believe the Book of Mormon contains all truth
[/quote]

I thought the LDS held that the BoM contains the fullness of the Gospel…


#8

I think he is adhering to his own doctrine of common consent. Where there are contradicions within Mormonism, to ake the statement that most closely adheres to standard Christian doctrine, and ignore the other. :whistle:


#9

[font=Arial]What I’d like to ask is how can the BoM and the Bible go hand in hand “for one purpose” when the Bible is based on monotheism and the BoM promotes polytheism? Or is this “union”, between the two books, more of an attempt to be more palpable or politically correct to the general public so that it will be a more widely accepted concept?[/font]


#10

Three with one purpose that makes since. And simply this means that we worship a trinity and the mormons worship a triad. Meaning we worship One God in three persons or natures and mormons worship three seperate God’s with the same united purpose. To me this is no real big deal, just a different theology.

But Casen or any others, all my life just like Victor claims we have been taught that you believe in God the father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit which you simply call the Holy Ghost. Yet you also recognize that one day you too can become God of your own plannet? In a previous post you mentioned that when a Mormon talks about becoming a God in Catholic terms you simply mean a Saint. But can you educate myself and others on this beleif in becoming a god of your own planet. And can you also comment on the claim that you believe that God also has a God. As a non mormon this is very confusing for us, and maybe with a little open dialog we can understand more about your teaching.

I have also always been interested in the truth and the real teachings behind wearing holy underwear at all time when yall are allowed to be in the temple itself and after. I have read so many things on it, and if you could tell us from your pro mormon view I would appreciate it.


#11

I say that the theology of it is three gods or one God is an huge issue, it is the difference between beging Christain or peagens, polythesic or what ever. Especially when it says there is only one God, but that can’t be taught in mormon teachings because they can become gods and be a god of their own planet. Like I said before though, it says many times in the BOM that there is only one god not three seperate gods that have the same goal, not that we become gods, but that there is only ONE God.


#12

From the Book Of Mormon
The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Alma 11:http://scriptures.lds.org/themes/graphics/selectoff.gif26* And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God?*
http://scriptures.lds.org/themes/graphics/spacer.gif
27* And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.*
http://scriptures.lds.org/themes/graphics/spacer.gif
28* Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?*
http://scriptures.lds.org/themes/graphics/spacer.gif

  • And he answered, No*

44* Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored• to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one• Eternal God, to be judged• according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.*


#13

From the Book of Mormon
;Third Nephi (3 Ne.) 10* Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.*

11* And behold, I am the l*ight* and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup• which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking• upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will• of the Father in all things from the beginning.*

12* And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude fell to the earth; for they remembered that it had been prophesied• among them that Christ should show• himself unto them after his ascension into heaven.*

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

16* And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying:17** Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.*

36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy* Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are *one


#14

Reid and Victor,
We’ve discussed the trinity, garments, and the issue of becoming “gods” many times before so you might want to try the search function. I’ll just say that it’s not correct to say LDS theology teaches that we get our own planet if we’re good. I hear this accusation all the time from anti-Mormons but I’ve never heard it in any church talk or lesson my entire life and I can’t find it anywhere in the scriptures. LDS leaders may have speculated on this topic but it’s not official doctrine. The Bible mentions that we can become gods (little g) and Christ said in the New Testament that those that loved him would inherit all that the Father has. However, what exactly that means God has chosen not to reveal to us.


#15

I know it is long, but they are very intesting verses from the book of mormon. First off, in the testimony, they all say that The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. Then in Alma,Amulek says there is only one God. Same with verse 44. :hmmm: So we can’t become gods because there is only one God

And in Nephi, Jesus says he is the God of Isreal, and they all worship him, which is heresy in the mormon church.:hmmm: And the God of Isreal is Jahova right, the unspeakable name? And the old prophits wroshoped Jahova. So, when did we stop worshiping God? :hmmm: Kinda intersting verses, especially in the BOM.


#16

[quote=Casen]Reid and Victor,
We’ve discussed the trinity, garments, and the issue of becoming “gods” many times before so you might want to try the search function. I’ll just say that it’s not correct to say LDS theology teaches that we get our own planet if we’re good. I hear this accusation all the time from anti-Mormons but I’ve never heard it in any church talk or lesson my entire life and I can’t find it anywhere in the scriptures. LDS leaders may have speculated on this topic but it’s not official doctrine. The Bible mentions that we can become gods (little g) and Christ said in the New Testament that those that loved him would inherit all that the Father has. However, what exactly that means God has chosen not to reveal to us.
[/quote]

Where does it say in the Bible that we become gods? If that happens, then we all are polythesitic. It may say we become like you in heaven, but that is saying we become devine like God. Not gods, that is wierd. It does not say in the bible you will become gods.


#17

[quote=alterserver_07]Where does it say in the Bible that we become gods? If that happens, then we all are polythesitic. It may say we become like you in heaven, but that is saying we become devine like God. Not gods, that is wierd. It does not say in the bible you will become gods.
[/quote]

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(Psalms 82:6)


#18

Whole context:

God rises in the divine council,
gives judgment in the midst of the gods.
How long will you judge unjustly
and favor the cause of the wicked?

Defend the lowly and fatherless;
render justice to the afflicted and needy.
Rescue the lowly and poor;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

The gods neither know nor understand,
wandering about in darkness,
and all the world’s foundations shake.

I declare: Gods though you be,
offspring of the Most High all of you,
Yet like any mortal you shall die;
like any prince you shall fall.
Arise, O God, judge the earth,
for yours are all the nations.

The whole psalm is about the downfall of unjust gods, stressing the mortality of people who set themselves up as gods.


#19

[quote=alterserver_07]I know it is long, but they are very intesting verses from the book of mormon. First off, in the testimony, they all say that The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. Then in Alma,Amulek says there is only one God. Same with verse 44. :hmmm: So we can’t become gods because there is only one God

And in Nephi, Jesus says he is the God of Isreal, and they all worship him, which is heresy in the mormon church.:hmmm: And the God of Isreal is Jahova right, the unspeakable name? And the old prophits wroshoped Jahova. So, when did we stop worshiping God? :hmmm: Kinda intersting verses, especially in the BOM.
[/quote]

I’m very familiar with all the verses you quoted in the Book of Mormon but as I’ve already explained they are in perfect harmony with LDS theology. We believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are ONE GOD as stated in the Book of Mormon and the Bible because, despite being distinct beings, they are one in purpose, hence, ONE GOD. I keep trying to explain this concept to you but I don’t think you’re listening. I don’t expect you to believe as we do but for you to quote LDS scripture as if we’ve never read it and then tell US what it means it a bit silly.


#20

[quote=Jerusha]Whole context:
The whole psalm is about the downfall of unjust gods, stressing the mortality of people who set themselves up as gods.
[/quote]

I think you’re interpretation is a bit off, especially considering the context Jesus used when he quoted it in the NT. But I understand Catholics have a different interpretation of that one too, so we may just have to agree to disagree on that one.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.