Book of Mormon foolishness--Jaredite ships

A very interesting article I found about the Jaredite ships described in the Book of Mormon:

packham.n4m.org/ships.htm

The Jaredites had to have flocks on their small boats for a year. Here’s a quote from the article that is really damaging to Mormonism:

How much does even one goat, sheep or cow eat in a year?

    These are grazing animal, but they can't graze on the ocean; and they don't eat fish. Their grasses and grains have to be stored on board. A goat eats 2 - 3 pounds/day. Even a pony eats about 8 pounds/day. Let's sensibly use 3 pounds X 344 days. That's 1,032 pounds of feed per animal. That's a lot of bulky weight to lash down to prevent it crashing around when the ships roll, and even flip upside down. 

It is a parody on Noah’s ark, written by (DaaaDaaaa) Solomon Spalding. They re-wrote his book, which was a satire on religious fundamentalism and racism, into a affirmation of the same. It is like thinking that Gulliver’s Travels or Star Trek or Lord of the Rings is real. :shrug:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=3316075#post3316075

Hey, 'Becca, I’ve come a long way!!! :smiley:

Haven’t we all. :smiley:

Catholic20064,
Thanks for the good laugh. How delightful! I loved it.

This guy is a supposed scientist, yet doesn’t notice that the account in Ether talks about a “door”. Brilliant!

He thinks glass hadn’t been invented (discovered), yet glass was invented in 3,000 BC.

He makes a big deal about “no light” and “no air hole”, yet of course the brother of Jared realizes he is going to need to ask those questions at some point in time, but keeps on building the “barges” knowing full well those questions will need to be asked, and will be answered in due time. One of the major messages of the Jaredite record is that you “go to the edge of the light”–you keep your part of what the Lord has asked you to do, before you can expect more “light” or knowledge" to be received. The brother of Jared knew this principle full well.

He acts like the air hole is small, but there is no such indication in the text.

Why is it so hard to conceive of containers for water and animal food that are airtight, when these barges are made to be airtight?

He acts like these people aren’t smart enough to have rope with them, and be able to see that a storm is coming and they will need to move from off of the open air part of the vessels, through the doorway into the interior part of the vessels, for the duration of the storm, and to tie up the animals during the storm.

Scientist, schmientist. What a delight! :slight_smile:

And just how are they going to feed all of those animals and clean out the poop … typical Mormon response which shows you don’t live in the real world. At some point you really are going to just have to give it up and really follow Jesus instead of a lie. Better sooner than later.

The process for making framed windows out of glass comes much later, in Rome, c.100AD. It was a luxury, only used by the wealthy, and only put in the most important buildings.

britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/gr/g/glass_window_pane.aspx

The glass of c.3000BC consists of: beads.

Catholic20064,
So you’re saying animals are never shipped on shipping vessels because there isn’t a way to deal with their “poop”?

So you’re saying God didn’t know any better than what the Romans would know in 100AD?

God sure did a lot of things for you Mormons that have disappeared. The amount of glass making in the Americas = ZERO.

Rebecca,
Thanks for making your point. It led me to google and find the following article that is very interesting:

chapmanresearch.org/PDF/Ancient%20North%20American%20Antiquities%20and%20Artifacts.pdf

Thanks!:wink:

Certainly not in the type of vessels the Jaredites were building. Someday you will have to face the fact the Book of Mormon is nothing more than a fantasy tale. It is no wonder B.H. Roberts was moved to write the Book of Mormon reads “as if it were a tale told by a child, with utter disregard for consistency.” It’s a wholesale deception written to make money off of its readers.

Catholic20064,
Oh, so you know how those vessels looked?

?? Nothing in there about glass, other than, modern-relics found on top of other relics. With, no dating to those relics. It reminds me once of this guy who told me there were horses in the Americas because a pictograph in the southwest had a horse on it.

ps: You do realize that the gold coins at Burrows Cave have been proven to be a hoax, right?

Rebecca,
Thanks for pointing out the hoaxes involved in the Burrows Cave story. I had not heard about the story nor its refutation prior to today. You made a good point. I’m fine with no glass in the Americas, but I do think that there are such things as “lost arts” meaning “lost skills”.

Have a nice day.

As to the “elephant pipe” in your document:

"In considering the evidence afforded by these pipes of a knowledge of the mastodon on the part of the Mound-Builders, it should be borne in mind that their authenticity as specimens of the Mound-Builders’ art has been called seriously in question. Possibly the fact that the same person was instrumental in bringing to light both the pipes has had largely to do with the suspicion, especially when it was remembered that although explorers have been remarkably active in the same region, it has fallen to the good fortune of no one else to find anything conveying the most distant suggestion of the mastodon. As the manner of discovery of such relics always forms an important part of their history, the following account of the pipes as communicated to Mr. Barber by Mr. W. H. Pratt, president of the Davenport Academy (American Naturalist for April, 1882, pp. 275, 276), is here subjoined:

The first elephant pipe, which we obtained (Fig. 17) a little more than a year ago, was found some six years before by an illiterate German farmer named Peter Mare, while planting corn on a farm in the mound region, Louisa County, Iowa. He did not care whether it was elephant or kangaroo; to him it was a curious ‘Indian stone,’ and nothing more, and he kept it and smoked it. In 1878 he removed to Kansas, and when he left he gave the pipe to his brother-in-law, a farm laborer, who also smoked it. Mr. Gass happened to hear of it, as he is always inquiring about such things, hunted up the man and borrowed the pipe to take photographs and casts from it. He could not buy it. The man said his brother-in-law gave it to him and as it was a curious thing—he wanted to keep it. We were, however, unfortunate, or fortunate, [Pg 157] enough to break it; that spoiled it for him and that was his chance to make some money out of it. He could have claimed any amount, and we would, as in duty bound, have raised it for him, but he was satisfied with three or four dollars. During the first week in April, this month, Rev. Ad. Blumer, another German Lutheran minister, now of Genesee, Illinois, having formerly resided in Louisa County, went down there in company with Mr. Gass to open a few mounds, Mr. Blumer being well acquainted there. They carefully explored ten of them, and found nothing but ashes and decayed bones in any, except one. In that one was a layer of red, hard-burned clay, about five feet across and thirteen inches in thickness at the center, which rested upon a bed of ashes one foot in depth in the middle, the ashes resting upon the natural undisturbed clay. In the ashes, near the bottom of the layer, they found a part of a broken carved stone pipe, representing some bird; a very small beautifully formed copper ‘axe,’ and this last elephant pipe (Fig. 18). This pipe was first discovered by Mr. Blumer, and by him, at our earnest solicitation, turned over to the Academy.

It will be seen from the above that the same gentleman was instrumental in bringing to light the two specimens constituting the present supply of elephant pipes.
The remarkable archæologic instinct which has guided the finder of these pipes has led him to even more important discoveries. By the aid of his divining rod he has succeeded in unearthing some of the most remarkable inscribed tablets which have thus far rewarded the diligent search of the mound explorer. It is not necessary to speak in detail of these here, or of the various theories to which they have given rise and support, including that of phonetic writing, further than to call attention to the fact that by a curious coincidence one of the tablets contains, among a number of familiar animals, figures which suggest in a rude way the mastodon again, which animal indeed some archæologists have confidently asserted them to be. The resemblance they bear to that animal is, however, by no means as close as exhibited by the pipe carvings; they are therefore not reproduced here. Both figures differ from the pipes in having tails; both lack trunks, and also tusks.
Archæologists must certainly deem it unfortunate that outside of the Wisconsin mound the only evidence of the co-existence of the Mound-Builder and the mastodon should reach the scientific world through the agency of one individual. So derived, each succeeding carving of the mastodon, be it more or less accurate, instead of being accepted by archæologists as cumulative evidence tending to establish the genuineness of the sculptured testimony showing that the Mound-Builder and mastodon were coeval, will be viewed with ever increasing suspicion."

(“Animal Carvings from Mounds of the Mississippi Valley”, Second Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, 1880-81,Government Printing Office, Washington, 1883)

Sorry Parker, it appears your elphants are also a deception. And it appears the finder of the elephant pipes had the same penchant for treasure hunting and deception as your own Joseph Smith.

Mormons I know love to cite the Michigan Relics as proof of the Book of Mormon. Equally a hoax:

sos.state.mi.us/history/michrelics/

Grasping at straws all the time – supporters of the Book of Mormon’s impossible stories.

Just to add a note of fairness, do you literally believe in the story of Noah’s Ark? Or that the sun actually stood still for Joshua? I don’t, but I still think the Bible is full of truth. Parker finds a lot of truth in the Book of Mormon. I’m not sure it has to be literally true either.

No. But Mormons literally believe in the history of the Jaredite ships. The comparison is not equal. I tried to hold onto my Mormonism by believing in a non-literal Book of Mormon, but was informed that was heresy. The only choice I would have had otherwise was to join the Community of Christ. People have been excommunicated from Mormonism who tried to teach the Book of Mormon was not literal. You can believe it as long as you don’t say anything like that.

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