Britain tries to block conversion to Christianity

catholicexchange.com/2009/04/09/117412/

considering the country it happened in i’m not supprised. while i haven’t met any in britian, i have never met a social worker here who cared about the kids more than they did the rules and power. im sure they arent all like that but all the ones ive encountered are so it makes sense that they’d have that kind too.

This is an important quote from your article:

Brits shouldn’t be “astonished that a culture that set out to devalue its values should find itself awash in crime, sex, and social discord.”

There is a hard core bunch of Catholics in Britain that are fighting the good fight…they begun restoration on Walsingham, and they are trying to build a beautiful statue honoring Our Lady in London, to do reparations for the great offenses committed agaisnt her during the reformation

We should pray for them, they will be the saving of Britain, if it can be saved

What in the world is happening to our Mother country? They seem to be sinking faster than we are in the U.S., and that is pretty bad…

I do wish you colonial types would ask us old world Catholics what we think about what’s happening over here. From over the pond the picture often gets distorted…

It is interesting to note the kinds of morality that left wing governments force down citizen’s throats. For the conservative, really it is a few issues such as abortion and prohibiting gay marriage. But for left wingers, even such things as going to the church of one’s choice is prohibited on moral grounds.

Not only is the morality of the left twisted, but it is petty. It is imposed in all things big and small.

You got me. I’m interested …

I would ask my brother ( he lives in spokane, but recently moved there from Stanford, CA, yep that stanford…) but I don’t feel like wasting my time with his outrage over all things pro american.

I hope Great Britain changes, it was a beautiful country with beautiful traditions and history. They were great men but now I don´t know what to think. It´s sad.

Lets get things in perspective…over here…in the Uk I mean Catholics are politically a) conservative, b) Liberal c) Socialist. A Labour Minister is a member of Opus Dei, a former Liberal Leader is a well known Catholic and a Conservative back bench spokeswoman is a convert to Catholicism. So catholics are in all strands of our political life.
Britain is a multicultural secular society. It is no longer a Christian state and hasn’t been since the 1980s. We have a militant secularist movement led by Professor Dawkin, a new Vatican appointed ( against the advice of a majority of religious and clergy) conservative Bishop, a weakening Anglican Church, growing pentecostal and muslim communities, and a wide variety of other faiths.
The big issue for lay Catholics is in the attempt by secularists to dictate how we should run our Church Schools - HANDS OFF - I call these guys Secular Fascists, seeking to impose their ideology on my children/grand-children.
But I cannot argue on the one hand for Catholic Liberty and on the other hand seek to impose my beliefs on non-believers. The church teaches us to eskew abortion and defend the innocent. This we do as Catholics. But non-Catholics do not hold the same value on human life. They cannot be persuaded. Therefore I must learn to live the moral life in an immoral world. In the US you cannot get elected unless you have a faith…here you cannot get elected if you talk about your faith. Two cultures, roughly the same language, different priorities, different environments.

I am with you all the way to the imposing beliefs portion as it relates to abortion part. Correct, I would not think it correct to impose a belief in the Eucharist, for example, a religious belief. Where we fail is that we have bought the argument that promoting life is a religious belief! Granted, Catholicism accepts the rational position that life is to be defended, thereby instilling it with a moral imperative. It is silly, however, to conclude that such a position cannot be reached on a rational and pragmatic grounds.

You err also in your understanding of the American electorate. You CAN in fact get elected to the highest office in our land without a faith, the current office holder a case in point. We are two cultures on the same path. You have simply lead the way.

William Blake once observed that ‘Everything that lives is holy’…The great Stoic philosophers were theists who likewise valued human life. Today in my culture we face pressures not just for social abortion on demand, but for medically agreed euthenasia and intervention in human genetic structures. Yet the moral authority of the Church is at a low ebb. The bishops speak only to the faithful. The Church becomes a fortress closed to all but its hard core believers. The vast majority of the population are allowed to drift into a moral swamp where they flounder. If we as a Church fail to reach out then others will fill our place.

If the girl was a christian attempting to convert to Islam, would this conversation even be happening?

When is Britain’s left-wing government arriving?

My own feeling is that instead of reaching out which I think the Church has been trying unsuccessfully to do for the last thirty years, the Church needs to stand strongly for the truth. I believe the problem with vocations, for example, and possibly the problem in the pews is that the Church must appear to stand for something a person could give his life for.

When England expelled the Church in the 16th and it was a capital crime to be a priest in the realm, they say there was no lack of young Englishmen filling seminaries in France to return to England. In this country we have hidden the Blessed Sacrament in closets - you can’t find it in church if you try - and have done everything within our power to reduce true Catholic identity to a grey shade. Some places you can’t find a crucifix; others no Blessed Mother or St. Joe. Still others the stations of the cross - you can’t tell what they are. I hear the sermons and read the diocesan publications. You couldn’t offend somebody with them unless you rolled them up and smacked him with it.

And it has finally come down to this in the minds of some - that the truth must be compromised to what - win an attendance contest? Build it; they will come. That in my humble opinion is where we let many young people down who would be drawn to the Church militant, as they say.

I think you already know the answer to that one.
Of course it would be.

One can never be too far to the left, can one?

But I cannot argue on the one hand for Catholic Liberty and on the other hand seek to impose my beliefs on non-believers. The church teaches us to eskew abortion and defend the innocent. This we do as Catholics. But non-Catholics do not hold the same value on human life. They cannot be persuaded. Therefore I must learn to live the moral life in an immoral world.

As long as Britain remains a democracy, you are obligated in fact to raise your Catholic voice in the public square. It is precisely because Christians stopped raising their voices in the public square that Britian is no longer a Christian nation, in spite of the fact that most of its citizens have been raised Christian.
Laws are a necessary compnent of any civilization. Ceertainly we are impsing morality on others when we disallow men to rape their wives or decide that a fetus is human, or that Jews are not an evil that needs eradication.

Christians have a sophisticated morality, informed as it has been for 2000 years by Jesus Christ. People need to hear our voices on all moral matters.

Britian is a democracy. As long as Christians are silent, secularists are not fascists. Rather, Christians have been cowed into accepting the moral verdict of secularists.

There is a big difference between humility and shame in the message of Christ.

Since Adam that which is forbidden becomes the fruit we wish to taste. Today Catholics face a new kind of persecution. The behaviour of secular militants may well backfire on them. It may make what is ridiculed and forbidden attractive.
Let us not forget that God works in mysterious ways.
As for Islam, in yesterday’s Times newspaper a leading Imam has called for a reformation in Muslim thinking, concentrationg on the Quran and abandoning the Hadith and Sharia. Not all Muslims are alike. Neither are all Catholics.
My own Catholicism has always been one that looks out not inwards, that works within humanity as it is and not a faith that sets itself up as some exclusive club with over ornate rules ! In that I am often challenged by the purists who see dogma as being of more importance than grace and love. As an English Catholic I have always been aware of persecution, having lost ancestors to the axe in the Reformation. But persecution must never drive you inward and you must never abandon the world God so loved to the forces of repression, exploitation, greed, graft and evil.

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