Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person

Norrie May-Welby, 48, was born a man but had a sex change operation in 1990, at the age of 28.

After becoming unhappy as a woman, May-Welby decided to become a “neuter”. The 48-year-old is now officially recognised as a person of no specific gender.

May-Welby emigrated to Australia at the age of seven after being born in Paisley, Renfrewshire.

Officials there altered the Briton’s birth certificate to include the new no-gender classification after doctors were apparently unable to determine the sex of the expat’s body.

May-Welby said: “The concepts of man or woman don’t fit me. The simplest solution is not to have any sex identification.”

The UK’s Gender Trust welcomed the case. A spokesman said: “Many people like the idea of being genderless.”

Read more here: telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7446850/Briton-is-recognised-as-worlds-first-officially-genderless-person.html

I am afraid that May-Welby is not the world's first.

India, back in November, officially allowed persons to register their sex as "other"
edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/12/india.gender.voting/index.html

But Norrie may be the first resident of a Western country to get hir gender marker changed to neither male nor female.

Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about this???

It must be incredibly painful to be this confused about one's self.

I think I’m a generally open-minded person, who is capable understanding that people are born with different, often unsuppressable inclinations or orientations, but things like this I just can’t grasp. I think if a person like this May-Welby were observed objectively and apolitically, he would be considered to suffer from a mental disorder. I mean, if you went into a hospital and asked a surgeon to take a bone saw and lop off your leg, not only would the government (hopefully) not pay for it, but you’d probably be referred to a therapist.

I don’t know why homosexuals want to be associated with these people. Regardless of one’s opinion on homosexuality, even that seems leagues apart from transgenderation, or, in this case, degenderation? Hey, it looks like I’ve discovered a pun.

I am unsure what you mean by this; apart from the pun, which is sort of funny, I can’t quite understand your point

Gender Dysphoria is a recognised medical condition with a recognised treatment plan and from the data made available by the NHS (that is the National Health Service in the United Kingdom and other such comparable services in the EEC), the success rate is nearing towards 98%. That seems like pretty high to me when compared with other life-saving treatments, such as cancer, cardiac, etc

Google ‘Gender Dysphoria’ and you will find research done in the Netherlands which provides biological proof that these individuals are simply not imagining things but in the case of male-to-female surgeries, some structures of the brain are similar to those of natal females rather than to those of natal males

No such research has been done for people who want their legs amputated. Therefore, getting ones leg chopped off is not available on the NHS, but I suppose, one could have this done privately. Why do you mention it? Is this something you are planning to do? :slight_smile: If so, please Google ‘leg amputation surgeons’ and good luck :slight_smile: Let us know how it pans out for you :slight_smile:

My point was that it seems strange that ‘changing one’s gender’ is seen as an acceptable ‘lifestyle choice’, like one’s decision to dress a certain way, while it seems more to me like extreme self-mutilation. I mean, we can pretend all we want, but an inverted ***** is not the same thing as a ****** (not sure the actual words would get me banned for language). I just think we make exceptions for very bizarre behavior if it has a sexual motivation, or if it is part of recognized political movement.

I have never heard of gender dysphoria. Are you suggesting that transgender sugery (scalpel and all) is a form of treatment for this disorder?

I largely agree with Dionysius, the denial of mental disorder continues. People need to take the steps to help themselves and not pretend that society has the problem and that they are the healthy ones being persecuted as Dr Joseph Nicolosi would say.

I do not believe any of these "gender problems" are unsuppressedable or without therepeutic help. I think it is a bunch of people left over from the 1970's "liberation" movements to make excuses for whatever unhealthy freedom one desires to destroy oneself. And the influence is with us today, though somewhat gradually diminishing as people do come to there senses over time, Thank God. Even democrats are more moderate on legal induced abortion than they were 20 years ago..

And, to answer kristies question: Yes, there was an excellent star trek the next generation episode about this around 1993, though it may have had some bias, Gene Roddenberry was a very thoughtful atheist, sometimes he got it right sometimes not.

[quote="Dionysus, post:7, topic:191366"]
My point was that it seems strange that 'changing one's gender' is seen as an acceptable 'lifestyle choice', like one's decision to dress a certain way, while it seems more to me like extreme self-mutilation. I mean, we can pretend all we want, but an inverted ***** is not the same thing as a ****** (not sure the actual words would get me banned for language). I just think we make exceptions for very bizarre behavior if it has a sexual motivation, or if it is part of recognized political movement.

I have never heard of gender dysphoria. Are you suggesting that transgender sugery (scalpel and all) is a form of treatment for this disorder?

[/quote]

I don’t know if you will get banned, but I certainly cannot read some of what you have written

As I understand it, Gender Dysphoria is to do with Gender Identity and nothing to do with fornication or sexuality. And I am certainly not aware of the Gender Dysphoria party in the United Kingdom; we have Labour and the Conservatives and if you ask me, both are as incompetent as the other; and don’t even start me off on the Lib Dems :mad:

I am not suggesting anything. I am merely stating facts. The fact is that the success rate of male-to-female gender reassignment surgery is almost 98%. Whereas, a large number (I forget; something like 50%; it is on the Internet) commit suicide if not offered medical treatment, the vast majority, after receiving medical treatment, live normal, happy lives; but they do, ultimately, all die; one could argue that this is not a good outcome; however, since everyone else, at some point or another, dies as well, this would not be a good line of argument to pursue ;)

Similar statistics are available for female-to-male surgeries too; however, the success rate quoted is very poor; something like 50%; on the other hand, a 50-50 chance of survival has got to be better than nothing, I suppose

Why this person became genderless is difficult for me to fathom as well :confused: I only know of two genders; male and female; well, in the United Kingdom, we only have males and females; but then again, we are sort of backward in our thinking here :)

Dionysus, I can understand your reaction. You don’t know anyone who suffers from transsexualism, and you find it difficult to put yourself into their shoes. Decades ago, it was common for people to have the same reaction to homosexuality. It was simply too hidden and too outside the mainstream culture.

I am not an expert on transsexualism, but I don’t believe that it is a lifestyle choice. Who would choose to suffer such emotional distress, social difficulty and economic sacrifice? Rather than being extreme self-mutilation, changing one’s sex (which may or may not involve surgery) is seen as a correction of a birth defect which allows a more normal life.

You used the comparison of voluntary amputation, but I don’t think it is the same thing at all. Having all one’s limbs does not impair a person’s life. Being transsexual does enormous damage to a person’s life, which is why transsexuals have such a high rate of alcohol and drug abuse, and a very high suicide rate. Changing their sex helps transsexuals avoid such end results.

I think if we use the scientific names for genitalia in a medical discussion, we are okay. I think the first word you intended was “penis” and the second word was “vagina.” On one level you are correct, there are differences between a vagina which developed from gestation and a surgically created one. But to a transsexual, a neo-vagina is a wonderful upgrade over what they had.

BTW, although we are talking about male-to-female transsexuals, I would be remiss to point out that female-to-male (FtM) transsexuals exist too. They just get less media and political attention.

Dionysus, it may surprise you but transsexualism doesn’t have a sexual motivation. The motivation is a psychic conflict between their brain and their body.

“Gender dysphoria” is a current psychological term and been in use for couple decades, however other terms have been used in the past, and the future term used in the next version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is currently under debate.

But, yes, hormone treatment, and possibly surgery, are the only known “cures” for transsexualism. These procedures have been used since the 1930s.

Dionysus: Why is it so surprising to you? The human being is such a complex organism, and things go wrong all the time. If conjoined twins can be born, why not someone in a male body but a brain that is more female than male? It would be surprising to me if the human organism always functioned perfectly. You might not be able to relate to this particular departure from the average, but why does it surprise you that it exists? Do you think we shouldn’t help people with this abnormality?

[quote="Chris_McAvoy, post:8, topic:191366"]
I largely agree with Dionysius, the denial of mental disorder continues. People need to take the steps to help themselves and not pretend that society has the problem and that they are the healthy ones being persecuted as Dr Joseph Nicolosi would say.

I do not believe any of these "gender problems" are unsuppressedable or without therepeutic help. I think it is a bunch of people left over from the 1970's "liberation" movements to make excuses for whatever unhealthy freedom one desires to destroy oneself. And the influence is with us today, though somewhat gradually diminishing as people do come to there senses over time, Thank God. Even democrats are more moderate on legal induced abortion than they were 20 years ago..

And, to answer kristies question: Yes, there was an excellent star trek the next generation episode about this around 1993, though it may have had some bias, Gene Roddenberry was a very thoughtful atheist, sometimes he got it right sometimes not.

[/quote]

OMG, I just saw your post. You appear to be a deep thinker, for you think this and you think that. Just one suggestion; next time, try and think based on facts ;)

The ‘therapeutic’ treatment that you talk about was tried for decades and it failed quite spectacularly. Don’t take my word for it; just Google it; it is all there for you to read and then think about

I know that in Iran gay men (I know, I know that Gender Identity has got nothing to do with gays; I am just stating it here as an example of the methods tried) were given high does of testosterone; the end result was that they were still gay but with a very high sex drive :) :) :)

In the West, gays were subjected to electric shock ‘treatments’ and aversion therapy; the result was ….. yeah, you guessed it

By the way, I too have seen that Star Trek episode, I think; :cool:

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