Brother vs. brother

After many years, I was finally able to have a “friendly discussion” with my brother who, with his family and in-laws left the Catholic Church 10 years ago.
Most of the usual subjects that we all read about in these forums came up, but I think he was surprised how knowlegeable I was about the Bible and early church history.
It appeared every time I made a logical point about Holy Communion, Apostlic Succession or any Catholic belief, he would always respond that his church isn’t a religion, just followers of Christ. He said that his church (of 20,000, many former Catholics) only belive the words out of Gods mouth, nothing else.
I told him I would keep praying for him and believe the Holy Spirit will help him come home.

I would appreciate in comments or suggestions.

Well…many important words came out of "God’s mouth"
Such as…

“Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it…”

[quote=Lorarose]Well…many important words came out of "God’s mouth"
Such as…

“Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it…”
[/quote]

Or how about: “If he will not hear the church, then treat him as you would treat a pagan or a tax collector.”

Actually, I’m being tongue-in-cheek. The most useless thing you can do is get into a game of Scripture tennis. A better thing to do is be the best darn Catholic in the Church.

Scott

Also, where did we get that all-important Bible which tells us the words from God’s mouth? There were an awful lot of writings around for about 300 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus, some of them even by the apostles, by Paul, and yet those writings aren’t in the Bible. How did we know, 300 years on, what were the authentic words of God, and what weren’t?

Offer Masses for your brothers return home.

Fast for his return home.

Say daily rosaries for his return home.

Visit Jesus in the Blessed sacrament for his return home.

Ask for Mary’s intercession on behalf of your brother.

Ask the saints for intercession on behalf of your brother.

Speak to/pray to you brother’s guardian angel and ask his guardian angel to help lead your brother home.

Thanks for the responses. We have both agreed to meet again and talk some more. He constantly compares how he was a sinner for his first 30 years as a Catholic but has been reborn (and re-baptized) and has such peace at studying only Gods words and not acknowledging all of the clutter and mans influence of the Catholic Church. He admitted to being very literal and of course I asked him where in the Bible does it say to use scripture only.
I was surprised at the numerous misstatements and inaccuracies he through out about the Catholic Church. It was almost as if he was brainwashed or forgot many things he was taught in Catholic school. I’m concerned about his teenagers, because as a Godfathers we made a promise to God.
Thanks again for your help.

[quote=TPJCatholic]Offer Masses for your brothers return home.

Fast for his return home.

Say daily rosaries for his return home.

Visit Jesus in the Blessed sacrament for his return home.

Ask for Mary’s intercession on behalf of your brother.

Ask the saints for intercession on behalf of your brother.

Speak to/pray to you brother’s guardian angel and ask his guardian angel to help lead your brother home.
[/quote]

There’s always the green scapular as well :thumbsup:

Many of the Catholic Church’s chief doctrines are hidden throughout the Old and New Testament, one step deeper than the obvious level, at what is referred to as the typological level.

As I pointed out in another thread in this site, the Nativity in Luke 2 is actually a typological word picture of the Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Real Presence. In Bethlehem, Hebrew for “House of Bread,” what do we see? Bread being served in serving dishes? No. Instead we see baby Jesus, wrapped-up like a cadaver in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger, a feeding trough for yoked animals… So, * in the House of Bread*, instead of bread on a serving dish, we see the *actual body of sacrificed Christ on a serving dish! *Get it? The Bible is filled with Real Presence word pictures – jammed with them. They dramatize how dreadfully wrong our Protestant brothers and sisters are, and how much their doctrines fly in the face of the Bible they love, but do not understand.

Other Roman Catholic doctrines are taught the same subtle, wonderful way, which only God could arrange.

[quote=BibleReader]Many of the Catholic Church’s chief doctrines are hidden throughout the Old and New Testament, one step deeper than the obvious level, at what is referred to as the typological level.

As I pointed out in another thread in this site, the Nativity in Luke 2 is actually a typological word picture of the Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Real Presence. In Bethlehem, Hebrew for “House of Bread,” what do we see? Bread being served in serving dishes? No. Instead we see baby Jesus, wrapped-up like a cadaver in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger, a feeding trough for yoked animals… So, * in the House of Bread*, instead of bread on a serving dish, we see the *actual body of sacrificed Christ on a serving dish! *Get it? The Bible is filled with Real Presence word pictures – jammed with them. They dramatize how dreadfully wrong our Protestant brothers and sisters are, and how much their doctrines fly in the face of the Bible they love, but do not understand.

Other Roman Catholic doctrines are taught the same subtle, wonderful way, which only God could arrange.
[/quote]

The best thing you can do Gitsh is keep coming here and building up your arsenal with ammo like this. When he comes back it will be because you talked with him and showed him how utterly shallow Prot “Christianity” is when he throws out the Sacraments, history, and leadership. He thinks he has the answers right now, but your an example to him how mistaken he is. And as usual, do what I do when I have a Q or two, I come to CA forums!

After our next meeting instead of getting into the obvious topics I expected. My brother would not get off of 2 main issues. The first being, according to him, since Catholic is never mentioned in the Bible, Catholics were not really the first church, his Christians were. Second, Catholics made up the word “Pope” and gave it to Peter retroactively. So there is no real succession.

Since by his own admission he is a literalist, does anyone have some scripture I can show him?

thanks

Being a literalist - he is necessarily limiting himself from understanding the full truth.

If he rejects the word “catholic” because it is not in scripture does he also reject the word “trinity”?

“Catholic” simply means universal.
Jesus certainly did want His Church to preach the gospel throughout the earth.

The word “pope” means "papa"
We see in scripture that the Apostles were called "father"
We also see in scripture that Jesus made Peter the keeper of the keys.

I would suggest the book Upon This Rock by Stephen K. Ray

What Lorarose said. Being a literalist will absolutely murder his own position. In addition to Trinity as mentioned, where does the Bible literally say Scripture is the sole rule of faith? Where are alter calls? Where is “Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?”

Scott

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