BTK Killer and OSAS


#1

BTK was a Lutheran and held a high position in the Church he attended; I think he was a deacon or similar to, according to news. No unbaptized person would hold such a high position in a Church!

Question is, if OSAS is true, why would it be necessary for BTK to ask for forgiveness, if his salvation was already assured!

And if his confession of faith at baptism was not legit, as some defenders of OSAS might say, then why would he hold such a high positions in church!

My question is directed to my Protestant brothers!

God Bless


#2

I don’t think that Lutherans believe in OSAS. My younger sister says that she doesn’t and she is Lutheran. We have Lutherans on this forum so perhaps they will correct me if I am wrong.

There are different kinds of OSAS. One kind says that after you put your trust in Jesus, then nothing that you do counts against your guarentee to heaven. By that reasoning the BTK killer could get in heaven but some of his victims, if not born again, wouldn’t.

THe other type of OSAS believes that when a person becomes born again they undergo a change that makes them less likely to sin. By that reasoning the BTK killer would not be considered Christian because someone who commited such an atrocity could not have been a Christian.


#3

First of all, Lutherans, as far as I know, do not believe in OSAS. Also, they practice infant baptism. So, I would say that it is highly unlikely that he ever made a profession of faith.
If he did–I would say that, since it was dishonest (to say the least!), that it wouldn’t mean anything.
I share your perplexity over how such a person could have become known as a prominent church member. However, we must always remember that it is the nature of serial killers to be extremely good liars, & even better actors. My guess is that he saw this as a terrific way to hide out from the law.
Criminals will find a way to hide their deeds if at all possible. The fact that he went on for so long with no attempt at turning himself over to the authorities says to me that his religion was a complete sham…
Every branch of Christianity has produced some genuine “stinkers”. Why should this surprise us? After all, we are told in scripture that even satan & his demons can masquerade as “angels of light”.
God bless.


#4

Thank you guys for the corrections about Lutherans, I must have confused OSAS with faith Alone!

God BLess


#5

[quote=auhsoj88]Thank you guys for the corrections about Lutherans, I must have confused OSAS with faith Alone!

God BLess
[/quote]

Neither faith alone nor OSAS (at least in its Calvinist form) would have problems with what you describe. There would be a problem for belief in perfectionism - but not for all forms of perfectionism.


#6

Hello auhsoj88,

Just last week on a Lutheran forum this very issue about BTK and Lutheran theology was discussed in great detail:

Is BTK killer a Lutheran?

You may find the discussion “enlightening”

Regards,
James Swan
ntrmin.org/rccorner-reformation.htm


#7

[quote=auhsoj88]BTK was a Lutheran and held a high position in the Church he attended; I think he was a deacon or similar to, according to news. No unbaptized person would hold such a high position in a Church!

Question is, if OSAS is true, why would it be necessary for BTK to ask for forgiveness, if his salvation was already assured!

And if his confession of faith at baptism was not legit, as some defenders of OSAS might say, then why would he hold such a high positions in church!

My question is directed to my Protestant brothers!

God Bless
[/quote]

I am an evangelical and believe OSAS. Only God can know if a baptism is an actual act of surrendering one’s life to Jesus Christ (once it is surrendered it cannot be taken back) Thus just because someone is baptised doesn’t mean they are saved. Here is an anology that you Cathoilics can appreciate. A marriage ceremony doesn’t mean a marriage has occured. For example when the Catholic Church grants an annulment it is acknowledging that the marriage participants did not genuinely commit too each other with full knowledge of what that entails and thus a marriage never occured. Baptism is the same way; without repentance, surrender and true faith you are just getting your head wet :slight_smile:


#8

Thanks for responding!

The thesis I presented in my thread is now moot. Thanks for edifying!

Tertium Quid: I enjoyed the article thanks!

GOG: good point!

[quote=Vincent1560]I am an evangelical and believe OSAS. Only God can know if a baptism is an actual act of surrendering one’s life to Jesus Christ (once it is surrendered it cannot be taken back) Thus just because someone is baptised doesn’t mean they are saved. Here is an anology that you Cathoilics can appreciate. A marriage ceremony doesn’t mean a marriage has occured. For example when the Catholic Church grants an annulment it is acknowledging that the marriage participants did not genuinely commit too each other with full knowledge of what that entails and thus a marriage never occured. Baptism is the same way; without repentance, surrender and true faith you are just getting your head wet :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Vincint 1560: Good analogy! To validate an enulment an investigation takes place and interviews are conducted to prove from witness that the marriage may indeed be invalid. IE, one or both in the marriage were 1) drunk 2) one married the other for his/her money/estate 3) citizenship, 4) one was not psycologicaly fit for marriage, 5) forced marriage, etc…

Question is; Other than God, how does a person know if he is rightfully baptized??? Thanks,

perhaps I will start a separate thread!

God bless


#9

[quote=auhsoj88]Thanks for responding!

The thesis I presented in my thread is now moot. Thanks for edifying!

Tertium Quid: I enjoyed the article thanks!

GOG: good point!

Vincint 1560: Good analogy! To validate an enulment an investigation takes place and interviews are conducted to prove from witness that the marriage may indeed be invalid. IE, one or both in the marriage were 1) drunk 2) one married the other for his/her money/estate 3) citizenship, 4) one was not psycologicaly fit for marriage, 5) forced marriage, etc…

Question is; Other than God, how does a person know if he is rightfully baptized??? Thanks,

perhaps I will start a separate thread!

God bless
[/quote]

I would say that it is similar to a person knowing wether they are really married. If the person can understand what he is doing and does it freely and willingly he can know he actually did it. Of course the possibility always exists that a person is deceivng themselves, but I think it is possible, just like with marriage to be reasonably certain wether the sacrement has occured.


#10

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