Bullfighting: Justify Cruelty with Tradition


#1

My new blogpost: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/bullfighting-justifying-cruelty-with-tradition/

My guess would be that most Catholics don’t have a problem with bullfighting. Am I wrong?


#2

I don't know about most Catholics, but I think it is a shameful and abusive treatment of animals.


#3

[quote="Dale_M, post:2, topic:299470"]
I don't know about most Catholics, but I think it is a shameful and abusive treatment of animals.

[/quote]

Thanks for your answer -- I'm encouraged.


#4

[quote="spencelo, post:1, topic:299470"]
My new blogpost: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/bullfighting-justifying-cruelty-with-tradition/

My guess would be that most Catholics don't have a problem with bullfighting. Am I wrong?

[/quote]

I think you are wrong. I haven't seen poll numbers but few Americans of any faith support traditional bullfighting. Even in the countries where it is somewhat more popular, there is a strong movement against the sport.

The newer bloodless version is another matter.


#5

Who are any of you to judge anything of a sporting nature from another culture?
Do any of you have any sympathy for the many bull fighters that are seriously injured, and yes, killed every year? Or, do you say that they deserve it?
How would all of you like it if a Spanisn or Catalonian site entertained anti-American threads citing the brutality of American football-citing the huge number of permanent injuries to young men, or America's pre-occupation with sex, contraception, abortion, and acceptance of the gay life style.
Remember the saying: "People in glass houses...."


#6

[quote="spencelo, post:1, topic:299470"]
My new blogpost: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/bullfighting-justifying-cruelty-with-tradition/

My guess would be that most Catholics don't have a problem with bullfighting. Am I wrong?

[/quote]

Umm, I think you are incorrect. I think it is a horrific, atrocious practice that signifies disrespect towards God's creation in the extreme. I am a vegetarian, but I do not feel the necessity to harp on those who wish to eat meat. Those who wish to participate in this bloodthirsty spectacle are another matter entirely.


#7

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:5, topic:299470"]
Who are any of you to judge anything of a sporting nature from another culture?

[/quote]

Don't over-react.

"any of you" implies multiple posters.

By my count, only one poster made any statement that could even remotely be considered to be judging the sport. The others are discussion numbers. :shrug:

edited to add: ok, now 2.


#8

The attack against bullfighting mostly comes from people who are very ignorant of Iberian culture.


#9

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:5, topic:299470"]
Who are any of you to judge anything of a sporting nature from another culture?

[/quote]

Are you seriously advocating cultural relativism? You don't believe in absolute values? A bull suffers just as much in Spain as it would in the US, regardless of cultural tradiitions.

BTW, Catalonia banned bullfighting a year ago.
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15050706


#10

[quote="spencelo, post:1, topic:299470"]
My new blogpost: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/bullfighting-justifying-cruelty-with-tradition/

My guess would be that most Catholics don't have a problem with bullfighting. Am I wrong?

[/quote]

A lot of Catholics I've encountered on CAF are opposed to moral and cultural relativism. Based on this logic, they should be opposed to bullfighting since cruelty toward animals is still cruelty regardless of the cultural tradition of the sport. I'm not opposed to moral and cultural relativism but am against the apparent cruelty found in bullfighting. Go figure.


#11

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:5, topic:299470"]
Who are any of you to judge anything of a sporting nature from another culture?
Do any of you have any sympathy for the many bull fighters that are seriously injured, and yes, killed every year? Or, do you say that they deserve it?
How would all of you like it if a Spanisn or Catalonian site entertained anti-American threads citing the brutality of American football-citing the huge number of permanent injuries to young men, or America's pre-occupation with sex, contraception, abortion, and acceptance of the gay life style.
Remember the saying: "People in glass houses...."

[/quote]

I'm sure bullfighters are aware of the risk when they participate. It's tragic if they are killed or injured but they're not victims.


#12

The reason why it is prevalent in Iberia and the lands that Spain as well as Portugal had colonized is due to the fact that bullfighting is an admiration of the bull's fighting spirit. That is why bullfighting is not considered a sport unlike wrestling. Instead, bullfights are considered as part of Iberian culture and heritage.
I'm neutral when it comes to bullfighting, mind you.
The bullfight in itself is a very ritualized event. And contrary to American belief, the bull dies not a painful death, but a glorious one. In fact, the act of thrusting the sword into the bull is done in such a way that the bull would not die an agonizing death. If the faena (sword jab) fails to kill the bull by that stab to the aorta or heart, the matador will be booed a lot for having such lousy aim. Should the matador fail in killing the bull, it is considered dishonorable for the failing matador.
Also, the bull is honored for taking part in the bullfight. In some cases, even more so than the matadors themselves.
Just my observations on the matter.


#13

[quote="Crescentinus, post:12, topic:299470"]
And contrary to American belief, the bull dies not a painful death

[/quote]

First of all, it's not just an "American" belief -- people in bullfighting countries believe it as well. Second, to suggest that the bull does not die a painful death is outrageously absurd; if you spent even 10 minutes reviewing the many links in my post, you'd realize this. I think I wrote the following sentences with people like you in mind:

More pertinent is why entrenched traditions can so easily lead to extreme moral blindness, and what can be done to wake enthusiasts up to the plain absurdities of their convictions. Ethical truths can be a very simple matter, but often getting people to see them – and live by them – is not.


#14

[quote="spencelo, post:1, topic:299470"]
My new blogpost: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/bullfighting-justifying-cruelty-with-tradition/

My guess would be that most Catholics don't have a problem with bullfighting. Am I wrong?

[/quote]

I love it. It should be introduced to Canada.


#15

[quote="spencelo, post:13, topic:299470"]
First of all, it's not just an "American" belief -- people in bullfighting countries believe it as well. Second, to suggest that the bull does not die a painful death is outrageously absurd; if you spent even 10 minutes reviewing the many links in my post, you'd realize this. I think I wrote the following sentences with people like you in mind:

More pertinent is why entrenched traditions can so easily lead to extreme moral blindness, and what can be done to wake enthusiasts up to the plain absurdities of their convictions. Ethical truths can be a very simple matter, but often getting people to see them – and live by them – is not.

[/quote]

From what I've seen, most who oppose it are either Americans or Americanized. Just saying.

You do realize that Spanish Fighting Bulls and similar breeds are even tougher than normal cattle, right? And yes, the typical cattle breeds are very tough themselves. I'm no bullfighter nor even try and support it, but I've known that they are very tough. I've seen bulls give each other headbutts with such force that would easily kill a human outright.


#16

I have to say, killing something for entertainment is loathsome and appalling to me.


#17

[quote="AlTheCollegeGal, post:16, topic:299470"]
I have to say, killing something for entertainment is loathsome and appalling to me.

[/quote]

And I respect your views. :)


#18

By my count so far, 5 self-identified Catholics are against bullfighting, and 3 self-identified Catholics are for it (or don't see a problem with it).


#19

[quote="spencelo, post:18, topic:299470"]
By my count so far, 5 self-identified Catholics are against bullfighting, and 3 self-identified Catholics are for it (or don't see a problem with it).

[/quote]

In my defense, I've seen worse things that people do to each other.


#20

[quote="Crescentinus, post:19, topic:299470"]
In my defense, I've seen worse things that people do to each other.

[/quote]

So what? That's no defense at all -- the fact that there are worse wrongs out there doesn't excuse this one.


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