Bullies like Marie on Everybody Loves Raymond


#1

The Marie character is quite a narcissist and a bully. She manipulates people with guilt trips and forces her opinions on other people, and then when someone tries to call her on her actions and gain some space, she takes it like she is being personally attacked or the family is being destroyed.

Narcissists take advantage of the fact that people around them have a sensitive conscience, while they seem to have none.

Using the example of the show how does everyone think that people should deal with a character like Marie, as Debra deserves some space, although, she seems to be quite the henpecker, and Ray is always in trouble.

By the way, I am forced to watch the show, when I visit some elderly people.


#2

I wouldn’t label her as a narcissist; I’m not sure her character’s motivations are narcissistic.

Pushy, yes. Outspoken, definitely.

Methinks her character is motivated by love for her family, but her actions are frequently misguided.

But, afterall, we are talking about a fictional character. I don’t remember the actress’ name, but doesn’t she do a great job of making the character believable? :thumbsup:

At first, I didn’t like the show, but it sort of grew on me. Like any good sitcom (and yes, good is in the eye of the beholder), there’s an element of “Hey, I know someone like that” in the character development.

As long as you’re “forced” to watch it (I take it it doesn’t suit you), may I suggest that you focus on how well the actors make you believe in the fictional charicters that they portray. :shrug:


#3

I have grown up with many Italian women (I’m 1/2 Italian) and she isn’t that far off from reality. haha :smiley: I am not that way–but my aunts and my dad’s mom (who I never met, but was told she had an art for guilt trips) was similiar to the character on that show. I can see where you might think that–her being a narcissicist, but I think it’s really meant to be a ‘spoof’ on Italian mother-inlaws.


#4

Marie = My Mother in Law

Distance is the answer. Thank God that we didn’t build a house next to her.

Marie may be a fictional character, but I can tell you, there are women like her, even my DH says his mother is like her.

I sometimes think these type of people are a trial to us. I know my MIL is for me.


#5

Never saw the show.


#6

Often I wonder if there was a secret camera in MIL’s house.
So similar in personality, looks, and fashion.

One time, about 10 years ago, BIL had to change his daughter’s diaper.
MIL, "I’ll do it."
BIL, “No, I can do it, she’s my daughter…” BIL goes off changes the baby. 5 minutes later MIL goes off with the baby and comes back.
“I had to go change your daughter, you didn’t do it right.”:shrug:

Oh, when DD was born, she was 1 month early. She didn’t have any health problems, thankfully. So MIL visits me in the hospital, looks at the baby and says, "Where did she get that nose from?"
For any body reading this, the proper and acceptable answer when seeing some one’s new born baby is, “OOOH isn’t she just adorable.” Nothing else is acceptable,

The deal though with both ladies is that they mean well.
But the control factor is hard to deal with.

I think Marie’s character was so believable, we all know someone like her.


#7

Methinks her character is motivated by love for her family

The problem is that her character would probably make that excuse, too, when challenged, which is part of the guilt game narcissists like to lay.


#8

This is not a real person, it is a one dementional depection. TV and movies cannot show the depth of a real human being.


#9

I’m probably in the minority but I find the Debra character to be annoying also. :shrug:


#10

Distance is the answer.

I sometimes think these type of people are a trial to us.

Yes, distance is about the only answer.

Sadly, Christian charity, is usually only thought of as weakness by the narcissist.

To battle a narcissist one has to engage in total warfare, and do it with a level of anger that most of us can’t sustain.


#11

I’m probably in the minority but I find the Debra character to be annoying also. :shrug:

You’re not the only one. She developed into a real _____.

Frank is the only character whose personality remained consistent throughout the series.


#12

I am pretty certain that my mother had a borderline personality disorder. She was much more destructive then Ray’s mom.

Distance was the answer for dealing with her. I don’t agree that total warfare is the answer.


#13

No, she’s not real, but alot of truths can be illumined through drama. TV, movie, Shakespeare, etc. The things that endure in drama do so because they resonate truths held in common.

The character of Marie has on many occassion defended flagrantly immoral behavior (lying predominately) with the excuse that she does it out of love. It’s dramatization of the classic, “the road to Hell is paved with good intentions” which brings up a nice Catechism teaching opportunity:

1750:The morality of human acts depends on:

  • the object chosen;
  • the end in view or the intention;
  • the circumstances of the action.

So Marie’s intention may be good, but her chosen act is lying which is immoral and renders her good intention moot. Now just about anyone could tell you that people defending bad behavior with good intentions is very real-life and very common. In fact, one has to look hard for drama in which the person doing bad is rubbing his hands together going, “I’m going to do this evil! muhahahaha!” That’s one-dimensional and not real.

“eegahInc” has a blog The B-Movie Catechism that does a fantastic job of taking the decidely unreal b-movie plots and charaters and applying them to Church teaching. And, for a shameless plug of my own blog, I do the same with the TV series Jericho here. Demonstrating that we can take anything and make it applicable to real life. :thumbsup:


#14

And now he is gone. go figure

Actually all the characters make my family look more normal.

Robert is a wimp, Ray is a wimp, Amy is a wimpess, Deborah is a naive wimp, and Marie is the wimp master.

Lots of funny lines, but aren’t we actually laughing at them and not with them?


#15

What I meant by total warfare would be something as simple as Ray telling to Marie that he won’t tolerate criticism of Debra’s cooking or child caring abilities, and then sticking to his guns.


#16

Yes! That would be how a man should act but most men are depicted on tv are depicted as incompetent, childish wimps.


#17

Well, in real life, men are often attracted to females who resemble their moms in some way. Perhaps in real life a woman like Debra would end up becoming more like her mother-in-law because her husband subconsciously sought out traits that were similar to his mom.


#18

Call me a cynic, but, I’d imagine that the writers for this program are shooting for high ratings, not deep moral teaching.

I think I saw this show on an airplane once, and found it silly.


#19

Marie = my Mom

Therefore I live 3 states away ! LOL

She truely does love her entire family, it’s the only way she knows how to show it…

Our long distance relationship is much stronger than it ever was…
When I return home…it’s back to the same ol’-same ol’…
But, I love her unconditionally…“but for the Grace of God…”


#20

I agree–I stopped watching that show a long time ago, when it started to depict Raymond in a very cowering manner…either to his wife or mom. And Debra as this bullying type wife…or a wife that he can never please. And, I like both people–just not the characters that started to evolve. Overall, it can be funny…but, those scripts really started to grate on my nerves. Just my 2 cents. I agree that it would not be a bad idea to show Raymond standing up for his wife…


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