Caffeine question


#1

I am well aware that the LDS church tells it’s members not to drink caffeinated drinks. An LDS woman I used to work with one day asked me if I had any Excedrine. I told her no but that I had Advil. She told me she was very tired and wanted the Excedrine for the caffeine. I suggested she go get a Coke. She told me she wasn’t supposed to drink it. I’ve been confused about the issue ever since. Could one of our LDS members explain the difference to me? I ask this question with sincerity and not sarcasm. Maggie


#2

I have also heard that Mormons are not permitted to drink “hot” drinks, I don’t know of that refers to temperature, or ingredients. Is this in fact a discipline of the Mormons, or perhaps SDA? What are the rules for alcholic drinks? What is the origin of dietary laws? Is it taken from Sacred Scripture, from the Book of Mormon, or subsequent revelations discerned by Church leaders? My Mormon neighbors in Ohio also abided by a prescription to always keep 6 months supply of food and water on hand in case of emergency. They also preferred organic foods and stone ground flour, from a local mill that caters to Mormons.


#3

Our “Word of Wisdom” is found in Section 89 of our Doctrine and Covenants and was received by Joseph Smith in 1833. It focuses primarily on healthy things we SHOULD consume such as fruits and grains. The things it counsels us to avoid are “strong drinks” interpreted by our leaders as alcohol, “hot drinks” interpreted as coffee and tea (temperature is not important), and tobacco.

Additionally we’re admonished to use wisdom in what we consume because our bodies are a gift from God and the temple of God as proclaimed by Paul in the New Testament. Additional common sense things that violate the spirit of the law would include illegal drugs and anything else we deem as harmful using our individual best judgment. Caffeinated drinks are not specifically prohibited and many members enjoy them but some members believe they are not healthy and avoid them. As with anything, some people are stricter in their obedience than others.

In any case, the only things a person must agree to avoid to enter our temples are: alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco.


#4

This is a good question even within the LDS church. About 50% of the church say’s that this part of the WOW means “All Caffine” while the other 50% say’s it applies only to Coffee and Tea or anything with Tanic Acid in it.

I’ve even had Missionaries arguing over this point. It just depends on who you ask.

The closest I’ve ever gotten to an official explanation of this in the last 24 years is when Mom was getting ready to go to the temple and the Stake President told her not to drink any type of caffine.

.


#5

[quote=Casen]Our “Word of Wisdom” is found in Section 89 of our Doctrine and Covenants and was received by Joseph Smith in 1833. It focuses primarily on healthy things we SHOULD consume such as fruits and grains. The things it counsels us to avoid are “strong drinks” interpreted by our leaders as alcohol, “hot drinks” interpreted as coffee and tea (temperature is not important), and tobacco.

Additionally we’re admonished to use wisdom in what we consume because our bodies are a gift from God and the temple of God as proclaimed by Paul in the New Testament. Additional common sense things that violate the spirit of the law would include illegal drugs and anything else we deem as harmful using our individual best judgment. Caffeinated drinks are not specifically prohibited and many members enjoy them but some members believe they are not healthy and avoid them. As with anything, some people are stricter in their obedience than others.

In any case, the only things a person must agree to avoid to enter our temples are: alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco.
[/quote]

Joseph Smith received this revelation by God without benefit of Baptism first, correct? Let’s be clear on this so the Catholics on the forum know who we are discussing. God, after He became God and was no longer a man, told Joseph not to drink coffee, tea. Or rather nothing with caffeine. I’m not sure that caffeine was an actual known substance then, so let’s remain with the idea of hot drinks rather. Sensible advice.


#6

Iwonder,
How old are you?


#7

[quote=Casen]Iwonder,
How old are you?
[/quote]

Personal question and none of your business. Please don’t ask personal questions. Try to confine yourself to religion,please.


#8

Why not answer? Are you embarassed?


#9

[quote=iwonder]Joseph Smith received this revelation by God without benefit of Baptism first, correct? Let’s be clear on this so the Catholics on the forum know who we are discussing. God, after He became God and was no longer a man, told Joseph not to drink coffee, tea. Or rather nothing with caffeine. I’m not sure that caffeine was an actual known substance then, so let’s remain with the idea of hot drinks rather. Sensible advice.
[/quote]

I agree that Caffine may not have been an actual known substance to the layity of the time, but you are thinking in terms of mortal time, something which the Catholic church teaches does not apply to God, that in Heaven all things are perceived in the present.

An interesting note on this. When engineers went into the Salt Lake temple to retrofit it with elevators for the disabled, they found the shafts had been designed into the temple when it was originally built in the 1800’s. Further, when they went to install a satellite receiver into the tabernacle, they found that the cable chases were already present, along with many other chases whos purpose is still unknown.

If the revalation was from God, surely he would know these things, even if it is unknown to the people, so the purpose of the passage may well have referred to Caffine, but if the people of the time didn’t know what caffine was, it could only be explained as “hot drinks” or tea and coffee.

God will choose who he knows will do his work, and that may not always be someone who is baptised. In fact, if you want to establish a new church on this earth, would you really want your messenger to be someone who was already mired in the ideolgy of another denomination? someone who had already formed strong convictions along denominational lines? or a clean slate upon which you could write your commandments clearly for all to see?

God Bless.


#10

[quote=Casen]Why not answer? Are you embarassed?
[/quote]

I don’t think my age is at issue here, Casen. Perhaps you could stay on topic a bit or start a new thread for ages.


#11

[quote=Casen]Iwonder,
How old are you?
[/quote]

Somewhere in the forum rules there is a provision specifically forbidding discussion of personal information.

So far as the Word of Wisdom–it is variously interpreted. Some LDS will not even drink hot chocolate–others serve it at ‘Firesides’. Most LDS avoid caffeinated cola beverages–including Mountain Dew–but not all Mormons are so strict. (BTW–Root Beer, Sprite, and 7-Up are NOT caffeinated, and even very strict LDS will often enjoy sodas such as these). Many LDS drink Postum (a dark-colored grain-based drink, usually served hot) in lieu of coffee, or drink herbal teas. And many Mormons drink coffee and tea–or smoke–and just never get a temple recomend (a license allowing them access to LDS temples). Violating the Word of Wisdom is not sufficient grounds to excommunicate a member. Originally, it was simply advice and not even mandatory for a temple recommend–several prominent early Mormons were very active in ‘temple work’ even though there is good reason to believe they smoked, drank, or consumed coffee or tea. The Word of Wisdom became a true ‘commandment’ for Mormons to follow sometime early in the 20th century if I recollect rightly.

By the way–Mormon temples are not the everyday places of worship which one might see just anywhere. Those would be ‘chapels’ and they are open to the public whenever worship services are held. Temples are NOT–they are reserved for special LDS rituals, which only Latter-Day Saints in good standing can participate in. Temples are ALSO not synonymous with the Tabernacle, which is also a public building.

[quote=iwonder]Joseph Smith received this revelation by God without benefit of Baptism first, correct?
[/quote]

Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom several years after he and several associates had visions of beings claiming to be Elijah and John the Baptist during which Smith and his companions were ‘ordained’ by the apparitions and ‘authorized’ to baptise one another.

[quote=Jo’sDad]An interesting note on this. When engineers went into the Salt Lake temple to retrofit it with elevators for the disabled, they found the shafts had been designed into the temple when it was originally built in the 1800’s. Further, when they went to install a satellite receiver into the tabernacle, they found that the cable chases were already present, along with many other chases whos purpose is still unknown.
[/quote]

A head’s-up on these sorts of stories. Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Protestants generally each have their own versions of ‘urban legends’, stories which tend to be faith-affirming even though they are unsubstantiated or outright untrue. I don’t know this particular account to be an urban legend but I would be reluctant to take it at face value.


#12

[quote=Jo’s_Dad]This is a good question even within the LDS church. About 50% of the church say’s that this part of the WOW means “All Caffine” while the other 50% say’s it applies only to Coffee and Tea or anything with Tanic Acid in it.

I’ve even had Missionaries arguing over this point. It just depends on who you ask.

The closest I’ve ever gotten to an official explanation of this in the last 24 years is when Mom was getting ready to go to the temple and the Stake President told her not to drink any type of caffine.

.
[/quote]

That’s really interesting. I had no idea that it was one of those “gray areas”. I really thought it was strictly no caffeine. I’ve lived here all my life and learned something new. I even got in trouble from my stepdaughter’s mom for letting her have a frozen ice cream coffee drink last year. That was another point of confusion because she couldn’t have the frozen latte whatever they are called but she can drink coke. But then again, my stepdaughter’s mom does not like me. She even told me I’m too nice to her and I act like we’re friends. So I think the caffeine thing was just to stir up trouble.


#13

Somewhere in the forum rules there is a provision specifically forbidding discussion of personal information.

I apologize, I don’t want to violate any rules of the forum. I get the impression iwonder is very young and wanted to confirm my suspicion but I won’t bring up age again.

Regarding the Word of Wisdom, flameburns623 gave a pretty good summary.


#14

I was wondering about this myself. A mormon classmate was having a wedding and said that she would be having a chocolate fountain. Yum… However, chocolate has caffaine in it. Didn’t want to ask if she knew this, might have ruined her day.


#15

Well,

If Jesus drank wine, then it’s good enough for me.


#16

[quote=Windmill]Well,

If Jesus drank wine, then it’s good enough for me.
[/quote]

:amen:


#17

[quote=Casen]Our “Word of Wisdom” is found in Section 89 of our Doctrine and Covenants and was received by Joseph Smith in 1833. It focuses primarily on healthy things we SHOULD consume such as fruits and grains. The things it counsels us to avoid are “strong drinks” interpreted by our leaders as alcohol, “hot drinks” interpreted as coffee and tea (temperature is not important), and tobacco.

Additionally we’re admonished to use wisdom in what we consume because our bodies are a gift from God and the temple of God as proclaimed by Paul in the New Testament. Additional common sense things that violate the spirit of the law would include illegal drugs and anything else we deem as harmful using our individual best judgment. Caffeinated drinks are not specifically prohibited and many members enjoy them but some members believe they are not healthy and avoid them. As with anything, some people are stricter in their obedience than others.

In any case, the only things a person must agree to avoid to enter our temples are: alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco.
[/quote]

So if all you have to avoid is alcohol, coffee, tea and tobacco, what about coca-cola?


#18

[quote=Casen]Our “Word of Wisdom” is found in Section 89 of our Doctrine and Covenants and was received by Joseph Smith in 1833. It focuses primarily on healthy things we SHOULD consume such as fruits and grains. The things it counsels us to avoid are “strong drinks” interpreted by our leaders as alcohol, “hot drinks” interpreted as coffee and tea (temperature is not important), and tobacco.

Additionally we’re admonished to use wisdom in what we consume because our bodies are a gift from God and the temple of God as proclaimed by Paul in the New Testament. Additional common sense things that violate the spirit of the law would include illegal drugs and anything else we deem as harmful using our individual best judgment. Caffeinated drinks are not specifically prohibited and many members enjoy them but some members believe they are not healthy and avoid them. As with anything, some people are stricter in their obedience than others.

In any case, the only things a person must agree to avoid to enter our temples are: alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco.
[/quote]

So is avoiding caffeinated drinks a discipline or a doctrine? Coz it seems to me like it is a doctrine. I could understand your members being lax on this matter if it were a discipline. But if it were a doctrine don’t you think that this rule cannot be bent. That means no chocolate, coke or anything that has caffeine. Even sprite…coz some people think sprite doesn’t have caffeine because it is clear in color.


#19

Well, the revelation was given as “advice” - *not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom * (D&C 89:2) – and the only food abstentions required for temple attendance are alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea. Beyond that we are admonished to use our own best judgment.

I think the principle is that our bodies are a “stewardship” and we should take care of them. However:

…it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
(D&C 88:26)

So we are left to our own on many things such as wether to drink coke, eat chocolate, watch TV all night vs exercise, etc. Personally I’ve cut out all soda but that’s only because it makes me fat!


#20

During Lent I gave up caffeine in coffee and sodas, and I’ve been happy not having the jitters so I’m still doing that. My wife is surprised since I’m not LDS and she is.

My question is how does the LDS view de-caf coffee as far as the Word of Wisdom? I can relate to the health issues of caffeine, but I get the idea that any form of coffee is considered a no-no for Mormons.


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