Called my wife naive

Before you start in on me, I already feel terrible about it; I just kind of blurted it out…

Anyways, some back story:

My wife and I have never seen eye to eye on the gay “marriage” thing; she is not Catholic, and was not raised particularly religious. She has an aunt who is a lesbian, and was engaged in a single, life-long partnership that ended when her partner died; she has not began another relationship since. So, in all honesty, I understand why her opinion on the subject developed as it did. This morning, I brought up the two court cases that are looking to overturn Proposition 8 and the Defense of Marriage Act; and basically started talking about how bad it would be if the court cases achieved their ends.

She, in turn, said that the court cases were not an attack on the Church (I contest that they are, however indirect), and that they wouldn’t necessarily have any impact on the church. She says that since Church’s can limit who they marry to their parishioners, they’ll be able to limit who they marry to heterosexual couples. I pointed out that this is not the pattern we’ve seen anywhere in Europe, or in Canada; and she said that just because it happened that way there doesn’t mean it’ll happen that way here.

At that point, I told her that she was being naive for thinking the US would be any different from the rest of the world…

I feel bad for saying it, but at the same time I stand by the sentiment; the US is not different from the rest of the world, and it will ultimately follow the same path as the rest of the world if the government refuses to defend the institution of marriage. It will get to the point where gays can sue the Church for not performing their “marriage,” which, apart from being an absolute affront to the freedom of religion, will result in a whole new wave of Christian persecution by “progressives.” I know I sound like a worst-case-scenario type of person, but I’m only basing this on the pattern we’re seeing int he rest of the world.

I am looking for statistics, data, examples, etc to back up my position.

I already have something in mind to make up for calling her naive though, so no worries there.

Thank you for any help you can give me.

I am not going to start in on you. Not much anyway. :wink:

You want these statistics, data and logic for what purpose? So you can prove your point that she is naive? Even if you did not say that to her (which, by the way, is not that terrible to call someone) why do you want to continue down this path? You already said you know why she thinks as she does, and you know that you are not going to change her way of thinking, so for the sake of your marriage, can you not just agree to disagree?

I don’t want to agree to disagree because it’s an impediment to her becoming Catholic. (She’s considering starting the RCIA classes this coming fall.) It is also not to prove she’s naive, which would be a cruel goal; she is a pretty logical person (at least as logical as me, probably a bit more), and if I can demonstrate cause and effect, it may open her up more to learning about why the Church teaches as it does on this particular issue. (As far as I’ve found, gay “marriage” and contraception are about the only things in the Church she actively disagrees with)

I’m sorry, but your original post did not say that she was considering going to RCIA. I meant no offense. All it said was that she is not Catholic and wasn’t raised particularly religious.

Still, please be gentle in your “data” sharing with her. I wish you all the best, and hope that she does decide to strt RCIA soon. :slight_smile:

Ah, sorry, I probably should have included that >_> She still has some reservations about it, but she has been fairly open to the faith, and attends Church with me every now and then (he work keeps her busy, luckily she’ll be leaving that job in June, and neither of us can wait). I am very hopeful that she’ll start RCIA soon; and that she’ll finally consent to taking the NFP classes with me…

If you have concern about this regarding people that could sue the church because of law, i suggest to start a prayer group to prevent this. In Brasil, they started to have communist, they gather together to pray and again, less then a year, the communist vanished. Prayer is very powerful.

Blessings and love!

Is calling your spouse naive a problem?

She is naive. And there is no reason to agree to disagree on moral issues.

She is my wife, and it is not respectful to call her naive.

I agree, my goal in this is to show her why she’s incorrect; to present to her evidence that shows that my conceived train of events is a likely outcome.

I’ll trust you to smooth things over with your wife on your own… :wink:

The group The American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family, and Property (TFP) produced a book that they have made available in full for free on their website:

Defending a Higher Law

The book goes through most of the more common arguments in favor of same-sex marriage and attempts to logically rebutt them. That might be a good place for you to start.

“Naive” is not an insult. It is an objective state of lacking information and experience.

Thank you!

It most polite discussion, it can be construed as an insult; and as this is my wife, it’s better to err on the side of caution. I don’t adhere to political correctness, but I do have to live with my wife :stuck_out_tongue:

Based on my personal experience with my wife (and age old wisdom…), you can either be right in this case or you can be happy. :wink:

The most important thing is to be charitable in these types of disagreements. I believe that it is our duty as Catholics and as the 3rd spirtitual work of mercy calls for, to “admonish” sinners. Admonish is such a tough word… so in other words, when we see sin, it is our duty to engage and to do so charitably. By engaging, I mean we must confront the issue by discussing or demonstrating why something is sinful or wrong. Our job is not to convince, only to present… lest we fall in to the sin of omission. However, as sinners, we do not have a monopoly on the truth, so open mindedness is really important as God is most likely showing you something in this process as well.

Be gentle, kind and loving…yet firm in your convictions and open minded to your imperfections.

This is good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Here’s a thought. Maybe it is not your job to convince her she is wrong. You have said it, let it lay. Trust the Holy Spirit to guide her to the truth. In the meantime, try to empathize about how she might feel about a beloved aunt who is “outside the pale” according to Church teaching.

I have some issues with this teaching myself. -Having to do with a beloved relative. The teachings of the Church are guidance for our well-being, but we also need to trust in the love and mercy of God.

Let it be. Hug your wife.

The teachings of the Church are not “guidance for our well-being”. They are the path to eternal salvation, and the existence and teaching authority of the Church is itself a manifestation of the love and mercy of God. “Whoever hears you, hears Me.” “Whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven.” He did not leave us orphans.

I am a Catholic and I have a similar opinion to your wife. I do not believe that the Church will ultimately be forced to oversee the marriages of gays any more than it is currently being forced to oversee any other marriages of which they disapprove. I don’t see how her perspective is naive, and I would be insulted if my husband called me that. I do not think her opinion on this matter is an impediment to her starting RCIA. I’d apologize and move on.

Ah wisdom at last! We have to consider not just much what we say but also the manner in which we say it. We can speak truth but do it in a away that actually drives people further away from the Faith. My mother called it using God’s Word as a sledge hammer.

Matthew 10:16 tells us to be as cunning as serpants but as innocent as doves.

I also don’t think the church will oversee these “marriages,” but not for lack of trying on the part of the homosexualists. She won’t oversee them because she won’t, period; and she will suffer the temporal consequences of her decision to remain faithful to Christ’s teachings. As a result of these punishments, she will be less able to lead the faithful and convert others, which is bad for all of humanity.

To everyone, thank you for your thoughts and opinions!

Forced, no, because the Church will gladly suffer the sword rather than sanction evil.
Fined, yes. Imprisoned? Loss of tax exemptions? I wouldn’t be surprised.

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