Can a Church offer BOTH the Novus Ordo and TLM?

I’m wondering if there are any ‘convertible’ Churches. Has anyone ever heard, or seen a Catholic Church, anywhere, that offers BOTH the Novus Ordo and TLM rituals?

Can a Sanctuary be constructed that will support both rituals? If so, does anyone have links and/or pictures of the Church. Could this even be done?

This happens all the time. When the indult is granted to celebrate the Tridentine mass, they usually don’t set aside a whole separate church to do it, but rather just celebrate that as one of the masses there along with the current mass.

I know that this is the case at the church of the Immaculate Conception in Jacksonville, Florida, where the only indult Tridentine mass is offered in my diocese. The Tridentine mass is celebrated at 8 a.m. on Sundays and they celebrate the current mass (in the same church) at 10 a.m. and noon.

How is the altar set up? Do you have any pictures or a link to the parish website?

Thanx.

[quote=cargopilot]I’m wondering if there are any ‘convertible’ Churches. Has anyone ever heard, or seen a Catholic Church, anywhere, that offers BOTH the Novus Ordo and TLM rituals?

Can a Sanctuary be constructed that will support both rituals? If so, does anyone have links and/or pictures of the Church. Could this even be done?
[/quote]

Here’s one near me! members.cox.net/holynamechurch/
Here’s the schedule showing both Novus Ordo and Tridentine masses - members.cox.net/holynamechurch/masses.htm
Here are pics of the local bishop celebrating the Latin Mass - members.cox.net/holynamechurch/bishop1.htm
members.cox.net/holynamechurch/bishop2.htm

Subrosa

[quote=cargopilot]I’m wondering if there are any ‘convertible’ Churches. Has anyone ever heard, or seen a Catholic Church, anywhere, that offers BOTH the Novus Ordo and TLM rituals?

Can a Sanctuary be constructed that will support both rituals? If so, does anyone have links and/or pictures of the Church. Could this even be done?
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Go to the thread on the Trinitine Mass in Detroit.
Our TLM is at a downtown NO parish.

I don’t think I’ve ever been to a 1962 Mass in a church that WASN’T used for both types of masses. The church in Detroit is one such church, though the building hasn’t really been altered in any major way since Vatican II I think. There is a church in Jackson, MI that is of a newer design (I think it is sort of fan shaped) that hosts the 1962 mass.

St. Agnes in New York City has about 73 masses on Sunday, including the 1962 mass. They had to gut and completely rebuild the inside of St. Agnes after a fire pretty much destroyed it, but its now quite nice inside. The altar is free-standing and the tabernacle is in the wall behind the altar. They actually move the high-mass candles from the wall onto the altar for this mass. I have a feeling, despite some reservations, that a 1962 mass can be celebrated in MOST types of churches, regardless of architecture (though I can imagine a “church-in-the-round” setup would be a bit difficult).

Doesn’t Detroit have two altars? One’s removeable isnt it? I can imagine that would make things a lot easier if one wishes to use a high altar. I’ve been to a church in lower upstate New York that does that as well.

[quote=atsheeran]This happens all the time. When the indult is granted to celebrate the Tridentine mass, they usually don’t set aside a whole separate church to do it, but rather just celebrate that as one of the masses there along with the current mass.

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I can imagine that most dioceses don’t have a parish just for the Tridentine Mass, but I do know of one: St. Clement’s Parish in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. A full parish that is completely Tridentine. And it is an active one, too!

[quote=mozier]I can imagine that most dioceses don’t have a parish just for the Tridentine Mass, but I do know of one: St. Clement’s Parish in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. A full parish that is completely Tridentine. And it is an active one, too!
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Is it run by the FSSP? They only celebrate the (indult) Tridentine mass.

As others have said, many parishes celebrate both liturgies.

However, while the FSSP does celebrate the Tridentine Mass “exclusively,” recently there has been some buzz as it has been ruled that these priests must celebrate the Novus Ordo is asked upon.

[quote=atsheeran]Is it run by the FSSP? They only celebrate the (indult) Tridentine mass.
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Yes, I believe it is! The parish has a website (I am not sure if you can post websites here on the forum, but you can check them out by googling them by using the words “St. Clement Roman Catholic Parish Ottawa”) and it is a very good one! Beautiful pictures from the parish album.

(Sigh!)

If only my parish could be like that.

The two churches that have the indult Mass in my area both have two altars, the High Altar where the TLM is celebrated and the “new” altar on which is celebrated the new Mass. And, no, I’ve never seen the new altar moved when the TLM is said, although I’d like it if it was. Both old High Altars have beautiful front pieces that are blocked by the new altar. Oh well.

And Eddie, you’re lying about the FSSP.

“It was never suggested that a Fraternity priest could be forced by a bishop, superior, or anyone else to celebrate or concelebrate the new Mass–indeed, canon law explicitly states that no priest can ever be required to concelebrate.”

[quote=Dr. Bombay] And, no, I’ve never seen the new altar moved when the TLM is said, although I’d like it if it was.
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Well, you’ll just have to come down to Mission San Juan Capistrano in Orange County, CA.

Most Sundays, they move the new altar, leaving an unobstructed view of the breathtaking high altar.

[quote=cargopilot]I’m wondering if there are any ‘convertible’ Churches. Has anyone ever heard, or seen a Catholic Church, anywhere, that offers BOTH the Novus Ordo and TLM rituals?

Can a Sanctuary be constructed that will support both rituals? If so, does anyone have links and/or pictures of the Church. Could this even be done?
[/quote]

The Indult church in my city has both masses.

[quote=Dr. Bombay]The two churches that have the indult Mass in my area both have two altars, the High Altar where the TLM is celebrated and the “new” altar on which is celebrated the new Mass. And, no, I’ve never seen the new altar moved when the TLM is said, although I’d like it if it was. Both old High Altars have beautiful front pieces that are blocked by the new altar. Oh well.

And Eddie, you’re lying about the FSSP.

“It was never suggested that a Fraternity priest could be forced by a bishop, superior, or anyone else to celebrate or concelebrate the new Mass–indeed, canon law explicitly states that no priest can ever be required to concelebrate.”
[/quote]

Really? I’m sure those close to Bishop Rifan of Campos thought the same before he concelebrated.

[quote=atsheeran]This happens all the time. When the indult is granted to celebrate the Tridentine mass, they usually don’t set aside a whole separate church to do it, but rather just celebrate that as one of the masses there along with the current mass.

I know that this is the case at the church of the Immaculate Conception in Jacksonville, Florida, where the only indult Tridentine mass is offered in my diocese. The Tridentine mass is celebrated at 8 a.m. on Sundays and they celebrate the current mass (in the same church) at 10 a.m. and noon.
[/quote]

Yes! That is my Church! I wish I had a picture of the inside to show all of you as it is really beautiful. I have seen pictures on another thread of Churches who offer the Tridentine Mass and they too are beautiful. At Immaculate Conception Church, the original Altar is still there as well as the free standing Altar. Also the first Sunday of every month a Novus Order Mass with Latin is offered at 12:00 noon. I haven’t been to the Tridentine Mass yet, I thought about it for this weekend but I still don’t have a veil. But anyway there are Churches that offer both types of Mass. atsheeran, are you in Jacksonville? I’m in Orange Park.

[quote=Lucania]Yes! That is my Church! I wish I had a picture of the inside to show all of you as it is really beautiful. I have seen pictures on another thread of Churches who offer the Tridentine Mass and they too are beautiful. At Immaculate Conception Church, the original Altar is still there as well as the free standing Altar. Also the first Sunday of every month a Novus Order Mass with Latin is offered at 12:00 noon. I haven’t been to the Tridentine Mass yet, I thought about it for this weekend but I still don’t have a veil. But anyway there are Churches that offer both types of Mass. atsheeran, are you in Jacksonville? I’m in Orange Park.
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Gainesville

[quote=atsheeran]Gainesville
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Cool. Go Gators!:wave:

[quote=cargopilot]I’m wondering if there are any ‘convertible’ Churches. Has anyone ever heard, or seen a Catholic Church, anywhere, that offers BOTH the Novus Ordo and TLM rituals?

Can a Sanctuary be constructed that will support both rituals? If so, does anyone have links and/or pictures of the Church. Could this even be done?
[/quote]

I think that most Indult Masses are done in churches that also offer the NO Mass. This would make sense, since one of the conditions of the indult is to not deny the validity of the NO. Here in the Galveston-Houston diocese, there is only one Indult Mass and it is only one Mass of many offered at that Church every weekend. The Church was fortunate not to have been gutted and has many of the “old” elements intact including a ad orientam altar and and altar rail.

My sister’s Church in NJ offers one indult Mass and several NO Masses each Sunday too. They had preserved most (but not all) of the altar rail. Father celebrates Mass at the free standing altar but ad orientam. Unless the altar can be easily moved, I think this is the suggested way since otherwise the priest would have to turn his back to the other altar of sacrafice.

[quote=EddieArent]Really? I’m sure those close to Bishop Rifan of Campos thought the same before he concelebrated.
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That’s a brilliant non-sequitur of a response.

[quote=ddimitro] Well, you’ll just have to come down to Mission San Juan Capistrano in Orange County, CA.

Most Sundays, they move the new altar, leaving an unobstructed view of the breathtaking high altar.
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That’s neat. Thanks for the invite. :tiphat:

One of the churches removed part of the altar rail and used it to construct the free standing altar. It’s made of marble or granite and looks quite formidable. I doubt it could be moved except with great effort. The other one, while not made of marble does look pretty hefty. I doubt it would be easy to move either.

Oh well. I get a good view of our priest, and Our Lord during the elevation, and that’s the important thing.

Yes

The Church of St John Cantius offers the TLM (both Low and High Mass), the Latin NO Mass, and an English NO Mass each Sunday in Chicago.

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