Can a true blue Mormon be saved?


#1

The essence of this tread is:

If a Mormon who truly believes in the Mormon doctrine of “We will become gods” (D&C 132:19-20) (Mormon book: Gospel Principles, Chapter 38) and “Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods…” (Gospel Principles, Chapter 46). can be saved when he passes from this world to judgement firmly believing that he will become a god while the first commandment states:

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me…

Commentary from the Vatican Web Site on the first commandment:

III. “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME”

2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. …

I am most interested in your thoughts my fellow Catholics and separated brethren. No Mormons please.


#2

can a true blue mormon be saved?

well, since there is no salvation outside the catholic church i would say that the answer is no. this same principal could apply to an “true blue non catholic”


#3

True Blue Mormon (TBM) is a term used for fully committed Mormons who truly believe and are active.

Your response:

well, since there is no salvation outside the catholic church i would say that the answer is no. this same principal could apply to an “true blue non catholic”

is incorrect. You are professing Feinyism which was rejected by the Vatican in 1948. There is a means by which salvation does occur outside the physical bounds of the church. Look up what Pius X, Pius IX, and Pius XII have said about salvation outside the physical church.


#4

I say yes, it is possible, if they know nothing else. However, in today’s world, it is highly unlikely.

:shrug:


#5

Thanks for your response Jerusha. But it begs the question. I believe that almost every person in Western Civilization knows or knows about the 1st Commandment and that includes Mormons also. How does God deal with a person who comes to him with this type of hardened belief that he is to become a god. Isn’t it just like a fornicator who is hardened in his sin and is rejected also?


#6

Mormons also believe in murder of unborn children in certain cases. mormon missionaries back when my father-in-law was one were told not to read any anti-mormon literature. Then again the book of mormon goes against the teaching of christ in the bible in many ways and thats not anti-mormon liturature. You would conclude that they must know. And knowing the truth and going against christ probably does’nt take you anywhere I would want to be.


#7

But how can we make a call on this, and how can we say what is in the person’s heart?
We must understand this whole question from the idea of “perspective”.

I can see a fundamentalist saying the exact same thing about Catholics when they claim that we Catholics worship graven images of Mary and put Mary before God.

Obviously, as a practicing Catholic, I know the fundamentalists are wrong, and I also believe that mormon beliefs are seriously in error.
But if one has been brought up as a child learning this, and learning that it indeed doesn;'t contradict the 1st commandment, then we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they err in good faith, and not obstinate doctrinal error.


#8

You don’t get it. Non-Catholic Christians are joined, though imperfectly, with the Catholic Church that Jesus established.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

Mormonism, however, is not a Christian religion. Still we hope that there is a way for them to be saved.

Paul


#9

This is an interesting question. Yes, of course, they know of the first commandment. However, in talking to them, I think I know how they get around this (at least in their minds). They worship only the Father. Therefore, from their perspective, they are not putting any other gods before the Father. They seem to believe that God makes them part of His family by bestowing godhood upon them. So, by their reckoning, these other gods (that were once people) are just members of God’s family. Of course, I do not agree with any of this, and frankly, I find it a chilling parallel that part of Satan’s deception to Eve was that they “would be as gods” (Gn 3:5).

Can they be saved? Only God knows. The Catholic Church teaches that those who seek God with a sincere heart, but do not know Jesus or His Church *through no fault of their own *may have a chance at salvation. So, only God will be able to truly judge this issue. However, I can tell you that LDS who are born into the religion are indoctrinated from a very young age. Is it really their fault that they are misled from birth? I dunno. On the other hand, converts (of which there are plenty), don’t have that excuse. There is plenty of information out there discrediting the LDS church and discrediting Joseph Smith in particular. Still, every LDS I have ever met sincerely seeks God so I am not going to judge them. But I will pray for them.


#10

I used to be a Mormon. Now I’m a Catholic. If God desires to save them, of course true blue Mormons can be saved – Christ died for them too. I’ll leave those final decisions up to God. I don’t think we have any reason to believe God can’t save them.


#11

Forgive my frankness, subtlety is not something I am known for…

Can a true blue Mormon who believes all that Mormonism teaches enter Heaven? No. Those who deny the Most Holy Trinity, and all the Truth that flows forth from Him will never see Him.

As I said, forgive my frankness.

AMDG


#12

Um, with all due respect to AMDG, Mormons actually believe in a “trinity”, just not in the same way that we Catholics do. They don’t usually use that word very much (although I have heard them say it occasionally!) but they do have a “trinity” of sorts. After all, they do believe in the existence of God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit. So “not believing in the trinity” is not an automatic exclusion, but you definitely need to define “trinity”.

But beyond that ~ Maybe it’s just me, but I like to rely on the words of a Catholic priest I listened to on the radio many years ago who said that anyone who had never heard the truth, or even if they had heard it, but it was explained to them imperfectly (forgive me for the lack of direct quotes, it’s been years!) will have the chance to hear and accept/reject the truth at some later point in their spiritual existence. I’d like to think many people, including Mormons, are in that category.

Love, Melanie


#13

Since they believe their god is simply another creature of another god (who is also a creature), they will have difficulty being saved. After explaining how those outside the visible structure of the Church may be saved Lumen Gentium says this:

But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.


#14

I honestly don’t know. There are so many Mormons who are good upright people who are doing what they have been taught, that I have to hope that it is possible.
But the more I read about and by Mormon beliefs, the more I think that it will most likely be only a small number…

Truthfully, I think that all of us who are Christians need to pray more for those around us who are involved in this system of beliefs. Mormonism is such a maze of Christian & non-Christian content, that:( many are being deceived by it…


#15

You can believe in “a trinity” but not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. Mormons see God the Father as completely separate from God the Son…God the Father sent JESVS (a god, not the God) to earth, not God Himself in the flesh.

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/mormns.html

AMDG


#16

Sorry this is long, but the whole Creed must be here.

The Athanasian Creed:

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost forever. This is what the catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit.

But the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty. What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is.

The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.

Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being. So there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being. Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, the Holy Spirit is omnipotent.

Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.

However, there are not three gods, but one God. The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord. However, there are not three lords, but one Lord. For as we are obliged by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person singly to be God and Lord, so too are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords.

The Father was not made, nor created, nor generated by anyone. The Son is not made, nor created, but begotten by the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is not made, nor created, nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son. There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. In this Trinity, there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less. The entire three Persons are coeternal and coequal with one another. So that in all things, as is has been said above, the Unity is to be worshiped in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity.

He, therefore, who wishes to be saved, must believe thus about the Trinity. It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man. As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother. He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God. He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ. He died for our salvation, descended into Hell, and rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.

This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.

AMDG


#17

Dixie, I totally agree with you. However, lots of Mormons know almost nothing about Mormonism. My fiance is a perfect example. She followed her younger brother into the Mormon operation, and most of the rest of her immediate family followed her. I’ve had conversations with many of these, and I can tell very quickly that they know less than I do, and I’ve never been a Mormon. My fiance says that she never thought there is any difference between Mormonism and Catholicism. She truly believed for over 20 years that Mormonism is Catholicism with a better family program.

I’m thankful that the decisions as to who gets to Heaven are not left with me. So that is something I don’t have to worry about. I’ve got my suspicions, though, that God is so thoroughly merciful, that all will be “saved.” The question is more complex than believing in creeds or following teachings. Left to my own devices, I hate people. What I find in God is limitless mercy. I’m trying to not go with my carnal instincts, but rather to just trust in God’s mercy, hope that all will be saved, including me, and let God sort out the details. Whew. That’s a load off my mind…


#18

I’m with you on that. I suppose there might be those who ultimately refuse God’s mercy, but I don’t see Mormons falling into that category. I know we can’t presume upon God’s mercy, but it does seem to me His mercy offers us a great deal of hope for all humanity.


#19

Q: Can a true blue Mormon be saved?

A: No. Only the fake blue ones can.

http://www.coolsmilies.net/wink/sq_tongue.gif


#20

Careful, you are walking the razors edge of heresy…

"Q: What is apokatastasis?

A: The Catholic Encyclopedia defines apocatastasis (or apokatastasis) as “a name given in the history of theology to the doctrine that teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation—in a special way, the devils and lost souls” (www.newadvent.org/cathen/01599a.htm)). The doctrine was condemned at the Council of Constantinople in A.D. 543. " (catholic.com)

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9809chap.asp

AMDG


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