Can America Save Herself from Catholics?


#1

I have long thought it was a mistake to worry during the days of the Great Soviet Empire that our government would gradually become more like theirs. The socialism I saw creeping into our country was not Marxist-Leninist as much as it was Nazism where the means of enterprise and production remained in the hands of private entrepreneurs, but what they could do, how they could do it, and where they could do it was dictated to them by the government.

This article, cnn.com/2005/US/04/01/bi…ap /index.html
posted by demolitionman65 as a new topic, is just another example in America, in this amazing past year of examples, where Nazism continues to demonstrate to me that it still remains the greater threat after all. Sadly, Catholics continue to be the largest single voting block to elect these people to positions of power in our government, the overwhelming majority of whom run for office as members of the Democrat Party. I don’t see how Nazism can be stopped as long as Catholics insist on remaining members and supporters of the Democrat Party out of misguided love and devotion for it that is nurtured by a sympathetic clergy for socialistic “solutions” to poverty.


#2

hmmmm…

Page not found?

PF


#3

[quote=jim orr]I have long thought it was a mistake to worry during the days of the Great Soviet Empire that our government would gradually become more like theirs. The socialism I saw creeping into our country was not Marxist-Leninist as much as it was Nazism where the means of enterprise and production remained in the hands of private entrepreneurs, but what they could do, how they could do it, and where they could do it was dictated to them by the government.

This article, cnn.com/2005/US/04/01/bi…ap /index.html
posted by demolitionman65 as a new topic, is just another example in America, in this amazing past year of examples, where Nazism continues to demonstrate to me that it still remains the greater threat after all. Sadly, Catholics continue to be the largest single voting block to elect these people to positions of power in our government, the overwhelming majority of whom run for office as members of the Democrat Party. I don’t see how Nazism can be stopped as long as Catholics insist on remaining members and supporters of the Democrat Party out of misguided love and devotion for it that is nurtured by a sympathetic clergy for socialistic “solutions” to poverty.
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You definately have to use bigger font than you use for that second paragraph.


#4

[quote=jim orr]I have long thought it was a mistake to worry during the days of the Great Soviet Empire that our government would gradually become more like theirs. The socialism I saw creeping into our country was not Marxist-Leninist as much as it was Nazism where the means of enterprise and production remained in the hands of private entrepreneurs, but what they could do, how they could do it, and where they could do it was dictated to them by the government.

This article, cnn.com/2005/US/04/01/bi…ap /index.html
[size=3]posted by demolitionman65 as a new topic, is just another example in America, in this amazing past year of examples, where Nazism continues to demonstrate to me that it still remains the greater threat after all. Sadly, Catholics continue to be the largest single voting block to elect these people to positions of power in our government, the overwhelming majority of whom run for office as members of the Democrat Party. I don’t see how Nazism can be stopped as long as Catholics insist on remaining members and supporters of the Democrat Party out of misguided love and devotion for it that is nurtured by a sympathetic clergy for socialistic “solutions” to poverty.[/size]
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#5

That is much better. When I read it, I had to put my face like 6 inches from the screen in order to read it.


#6

I see the “American catholic church” breaking away from Rome with in the next decade.

I thought it would have happened by now & it has somewhat, but not as openly as some people want. The election of the our next orthodox Pope will give rise to this seperation.

We need heretics to literally get the hell out of our Church.


#7

[quote=Dj Roy Albert]I see the “American catholic church” breaking away from Rome with in the next decade.

I thought it would have happened by now & it has somewhat, but not as openly as some people want. The election of the our next orthodox Pope will give rise to this seperation.

We need heretics to literally get the hell out of our Church.
[/quote]

I see a schism within the American Catholic Church. Just become we have a bunch of liberalized, pseudo-intelligent people within the Catholic Heirarchy here in America does not mean the church will split with Rome in toto. Where Rome goes, so I go. Most of the younger Catholics feel like I do.


#8

Where Rome goes, so I go. Most of the younger Catholics feel like I do.

Same here, buddy. If some, or even most, of American Catholics want to become Episcopalians, let them. I’m sticking with Rome. Period.


#9

:eek: Errrr wouldn’t it be better to work together?

wishing for a schism or for millions of fellow catholics to pickp and leave doesn’t sound quite right :frowning:


#10

[quote=Steve Andersen]:eek: Errrr wouldn’t it be better to work together?

wishing for a schism or for millions of fellow catholics to pickp and leave doesn’t sound quite right :frowning:
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone wishes for schism. I don’t think Pope Leo wished for Luther to take his estranged beliefs and split from the church, but that is what happened. I don’t think that the fabric of the American Church can bear the strain of the older, more liberalized aspect of the church being at odds with the younger, more traditional aspect of the church. The younger people like myself are tired of the lies of the liberalized dissenters of the church (please not here that I speak of liberalization in a theological perspective, not a political one). We want orthodoxy. We want tradition. We want the Rock upon which we can build our houses. Houses built upon the sands of liberal theology cannot stand, and we are seeing that before our very eyes in the church. Anything which is not built upon the enduring Truth must fall, or God is a liar. Since God cannot be a liar, then only orthodox adherence to traditional (and I do not mean sedevacanistic) Catholicism. No ordination of women, no gay marriage, no “special” exceptions for abortion or contraception, no fornication, and no tolerance for priests who would destroy the lives of their congregation for personal gain. If you want to be a pirate, be one on the other side of the Tiber.


#11

Of course I’d rather work together, but if they don’t want to work with Rome, what’s there to work with? Things like the question of the ordinaition of women are resolved, they are finished, the discussion is over. People who insist on pushing it, largely Americans, are either delusional or ignorant. These are the kinds of people I’m willing to let go, not because I want to push them away, but because I want them to realize they’ve already left.

You can only work so much with people before it becomes apparent that they don’t want to work with you, they want to work you over. When it comes down to them or Rome, I’m with Rome.


#12

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]I don’t think anyone wishes for schism. I don’t think Pope Leo wished for Luther to take his estranged beliefs and split from the church, but that is what happened. I don’t think that the fabric of the American Church can bear the strain of the older, more liberalized aspect of the church being at odds with the younger, more traditional aspect of the church. The younger people like myself are tired of the lies of the liberalized dissenters of the church (please not here that I speak of liberalization in a theological perspective, not a political one). We want orthodoxy. We want tradition. We want the Rock upon which we can build our houses. Houses built upon the sands of liberal theology cannot stand, and we are seeing that before our very eyes in the church. Anything which is not built upon the enduring Truth must fall, or God is a liar. Since God cannot be a liar, then only orthodox adherence to traditional (and I do not mean sedevacanistic) Catholicism. No ordination of women, no gay marriage, no “special” exceptions for abortion or contraception, no fornication, and no tolerance for priests who would destroy the lives of their congregation for personal gain. If you want to be a pirate, be one on the other side of the Tiber.
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Although I am not a young Catholic by any streach of the imagination, I will stay with Rome. I am not one who wants a return to pre Vatican II days but just want to see the American branch of the Catholic Church follow the rules. If you do not want to follow the rules you are free to leave. There are many things we as Catholics can disagree on but abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research and human cloning are not among them. We are free to disagree over the use of force in Iraq or how much federal money should be spent on AIDS research or immigration policies. Free and open discussion and disagreement in areas like this is healthy. But when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra, all Catholics, including Americans, are bound by our faith to follow him, even when we don’t like it.


#13

[quote=Lance]Although I am not a young Catholic by any streach of the imagination, I will stay with Rome. I am not one who wants a return to pre Vatican II days but just want to see the American branch of the Catholic Church follow the rules. If you do not want to follow the rules you are free to leave. There are many things we as Catholics can disagree on but abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research and human cloning are not among them. We are free to disagree over the use of force in Iraq or how much federal money should be spent on AIDS research or immigration policies. Free and open discussion and disagreement in areas like this is healthy. But when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra, all Catholics, including Americans, are bound by our faith to follow him, even when we don’t like it.
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:clapping: Here, here!


#14

[quote=Lance]But when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra, all Catholics, including Americans, are bound by our faith to follow him, even when we don’t like it.
[/quote]

Not to worry. There have only been two “ex cathedra” infallible doctrines: Papal Infallibility at the first Vatican Council in 1870, and the Immaculate Conception in 1856.

I don’t think there’s been much opposition in America to these ex cathedra pronouncements.


#15

[quote=Richardols]Not to worry. There have only been two “ex cathedra” infallible doctrines: Papal Infallibility at the first Vatican Council in 1870, and the Immaculate Conception in 1856.

I don’t think there’s been much opposition in America to these ex cathedra pronouncements.
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There are plenty of infallible teachings by the ordinary magisterium.


#16

[quote=fix]There are plenty of infallible teachings by the ordinary magisterium.
[/quote]

Right you are. But, the poster was speaking of Ex Cathedra statements.


#17

I worry too. But we need stop take a step back and understand that liberalism is as old as the the story of the snake tempting Eve, and Adam’s spinelessness in the face of it. 2000 years of ups and downs, heresy and renewal. The gates of Hell have not prevailed.

I can see the Catholic Church going two ways: a mass exodus, or a mass conversion. But not a schism.

I would be saddened by the church becoming smaller in numbers, but would be gladdened by it only if the FAITH remains constant.

I read this somewhere last night:

"We are called not to live the age throughout the faith, but we are called to* live THE Faith throughout the ages!!*


#18

So, why do we not put our words into action? Why do we not write our Bishops and priests and let them know where we stand? Why not tell them where they stand? I have already posted this letter here but I will post it in this discussion as well. I am emailing and will eventually mail all Bishops. Please, feel free to use this letter and email them or mail them yourself.

Dear Bishops,

Greetings in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ who was stricken for us.

I write this letter with a grief stricken heart and much sadness.

First, I am filled with sadness because of the condition of our most Holy Father Pope John Paul the Second. I will miss him greatly when he leaves this world. Our Holy Father is a true example of what it is to carry the cross in pain and suffering. I only wish our American leaders could also be as our Holy Father.

I also write because we as Christians have allowed the murder of a woman by the name of Terri Schiavo. Surely you have heard of her? Surely you have not been so busy in daily life that you have ignored this case? It seems the Catholic leadership in America has failed us. Bishop Lynch can go to Indonesia to help those who suffer, but he can do nothing to help a woman being murdered under his very nose. Where have our shepherds been in this time of need? Not where they should be. I do realize that not all Bishops because of time constraints etc could have gone to the hospice where Terri lay being murdered. But surely one of you could have gone? Surely one of our “great” leaders could have taken Terri a cup of water? But no…you have denied her water. Even the Romans did not deny our Lord at least something to put on his parched and swelling tongue. " Whatever you do to the least of these you do to me," says our Lord. I pray His words haunt you every day for all of eternity and that you know and realize you have failed in a time of greatest need. This was the time to rise up and let the world now where we as American Catholics stand in terms of life. This was not done.

There are some Bishops who have made statements regarding the death of Terri Schiavo but it was to little to late.

As I told Bishop Lynch, when we are silent in the face of the culture of death, our silence supports this culture. When we are silent we in turn take a stand for Satan. I pray God may grant each of you the needed strength to do what you are called to do. Shepherd the people of God and stand for life no matter the consequences. Are you afraid? Do you tremble in Satan’s presence? Do you fear what others will think of you when you take this stand? Are you afraid to suffer? Do you shrink back from suffering? I pray the answer to these questions is an emphatic NO. If you shirk suffering then why are you Catholic? Remember our Lord and His Passion!!

This Easter I renewed my baptismal vows. The question was asked, " Do you reject Satan?" My answer is yes! And my answer will always be yes. What is your answer to this question? If you answer yes, yet you refuse to stand for life, then you lie not only to yourself but to God to whom you are making this most solemn vow.

For those who spoke out against the murder of Terri Schiavo, I thank you for your words, but sometimes words are not enough. We must take action as the people of God! I urge you, stand for Life, stand for Truth and God will truly bless you. I beg you to take up the cross of suffering, as has our Holy Father. Follow in the footsteps of Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. May His peace and blessing be upon each of you and I pray the conviction of the Holy Spirit be upon your hearts and minds.

In the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Jenifer


#19

[quote=Ghosty]Of course I’d rather work together, but if they don’t want to work with Rome, what’s there to work with? Things like the question of the ordinaition of women are resolved, they are finished, the discussion is over. People who insist on pushing it, largely Americans, are either delusional or ignorant. These are the kinds of people I’m willing to let go, not because I want to push them away, but because I want them to realize they’ve already left.

You can only work so much with people before it becomes apparent that they don’t want to work with you, they want to work you over. When it comes down to them or Rome, I’m with Rome.
[/quote]

I don’t think its about “working” with Rome at all! Its about submission to Authority. My kids don’t “work” with me about their bedtime, they go to bed when I say they do because I’m in authority over them to protect their well-being. Sheesh!


#20

[quote=jlw]I worry too. But we need stop take a step back and understand that liberalism is as old as the the story of the snake tempting Eve, and Adam’s spinelessness in the face of it.

[/quote]

Sure, liberalism the invention of the devil. Freedom of the Press, separation of church and state, individual human rights, and the principles on which America was founded, all liberal democratic ideas have the stench of Hell upon them.

I’m glad I’m an orthodox Catholic religiously, and a liberal politically and not part of the whited sepulchers of conservatism.


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