Can anyone provide the context for this quote by +Ratzinger?

*The naive optimism of this Council and the self-exaltation of many who made and diseminated it justify in a disturbing way the most somber diagnoses of early Churchmen about the danger of Councils. Not all valid Councils, after being tested by the facts of history, have shown themselves to be useful Councils; in the final analysis, all that was left of some was a great nothing.
*

Nope but there’s a guy on fisheaters that uses this in his sig line. Maybe you can ask him. I’m a little suspect since I can’t find it on-line but I have a suspicious mind. :wink:

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, *Principles of Catholic Theology *(tr. Sister Mary Frances McCarthy, Ignatius Press 1987), pages 381-382; originally published in German under the title Theologische Prinzipienlehre (Erich Wewel Verlag, Munich 1982).

Tantum,
I am changing your status from “SENIOR” member to SUPERIOR member. Now there’s two of us.http://bestsmileys.com/religous/1.gif

Amazing…

I know who to PM the next time I need a quote to be verified.

Maybe Tantum would be so good as to provide the context too as per the original poster’s request? Maybe a paragraph before and after?

Are you implying that you don’t have a copy of Principles of Catholic Theology? http://bestsmileys.com/scared/5.gif

Not all valid Councils, after being tested by the facts of history, have shown themselves to be useful Councils; in the final analysis, all that was left of some was a great nothing.

I’ve always said this; it would not be wrong to let Vatican II “die a quiet death.” Not that it said anything truly wrong, but eventually its disciplinary suggestions (and that’s all they were, the language was very weak) could be changed and it didn’t really say anything new doctrinally.

There are several councils that are rather obscure, even if a few good things come of them.

When was the last time anyone cited the council of Vienne, or the Fifth Lateran council??

Obviously not all councils are groundbreaking, important parts of the faith. Neither are all papal bulls throughout history. Though dogmatic pronouncements remain forever, and all councils and bulls should have an effect on our weighing of tradition, ultimately some become insignificant or obsolete if outweighed by lots of other teaching.*

Who knows?! Almost all of my books are sitting in about 15 Rubbermaid containers in my garage. We’re doing some remodeling. They’ve been out there forever and I miss them. :crying: I have one more project to complete before I can bring them back in.

That should do nicely. Thanks, Tantum!

It was originally from a 1970’s lecture of his, I think, in which he stated that the real reception of the Council is yet to begin. I’ll look it up when I get home. I think the context was him encouraging the faithful to look at the Council’s texts and discern their authentic meaning, instead of attributing to the Council many specious claims.

Yes, he does say this in the lecture. That’s the only part of the context I could find. Thanks, Dave.

I have this text and I don’t see it there.

You are kidding me?! It’s not there on the pages he listed? Tantum, what’s the title of the chapter? Maybe the pages have changed during the many publications.

I googled

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Principles of Catholic Theology (tr. Sister Mary Frances McCarthy, Ignatius Press 1987), pages 381-382; originally published in German under the title Theologische Prinzipienlehre (Erich Wewel Verlag, Munich 1982

and actually pulled up a completely different quote. Very strange.

No. I have the exact 1987 publication by Ignatius Press and looked throughout the entire chapter and couldn’t find it.

The only source for that quote I could find was from *In the Murky Waters of Vatican II *by Atila S. Guimaraes (1997) source]. However, I don’t have that text and cannot verify the edition or whether Guimaraes had given a source for the Ratzinger quote or not.

Nonetheless, I think it is important to understand the quote in the context of other things Cardinal Ratzinger stated regarding Vatican II…

It is a necessary task to defend the Second Vatican Council against Msgr. Lefebvre, as valid, and as binding upon the Church.[Vatican II is] one part of the unbroken, the unique Tradition of the Church and of her faith.” (Cardinal Ratzinger’s July 13, 1988 remarks to the Bishops of Chile regarding the Lefebvre Schism).

“***… it is clear that conciliar decisions are infallible in the sense that I can be confident that here the inheritance of Christ is correctly interpreted***” (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Canon of Criticism, Salt of the Earth [San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1997])

You may not, however, affirm that the conciliar texts, which are magisterial texts, are incompatible with the Magisterium and with Tradition.” (Cardinal Ratzinger letter to Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre on July 20, 1983)

The only source for that quote I could find was from *In the Murky Waters of Vatican II *by Atila S. Guimaraes (1997) source]. However, I don’t have that text and cannot verify the edition or whether Guimaraes had given a source for the Ratzinger quote or not.

Guimaraes?! This is becoming a little clearer. Thanks for all of the work, Dave. I thought it was kind of odd when the only thing I could find didn’t have exactly the same wording and the only think I could find with that exact footnoting had a completely different quote. My suspicious mind now seems validated.:wink:

Hmmm. I don’t have the text with me and while I vaguely thought I remembered it in context of the reading, and so trusted the Google reference, I think I’ll have to go find it and reread. Translations can have pagination errors, etc. I did think the book referenced many earlier works, but that’s what I get for checking half-remembered things with Google and trusting it. :smiley:

Back to square one–or back IOW to getting my copy back from my friend and tracking it from the source.

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