…yet, how can this be resolved if not by Pope Francis’s interaction?
It is my understanding that he let the dogs out… when news report that Bishops and Priests are Giving the Sacraments to openly known adulterers, fornicators, and homosexuals, does that not open the eyes (and ears) of those at the Vatican?
I am asking neither. I want people to make an informed decision by paying attention and educating themselves with facts. People will believe what they want but at least we can help them make an informed decision.
Do you want to accuse reputable news organizations of lying - posting false news? There is a lot of evidence to support what I said - I have plenty of news links if you care to be educated. Or is there some massive satanic conspiracy against Pope Francis? Or perhaps there are many who will defend Christs’ teachings and official catholic doctrine.
They don’t seem to care - understand that there are some cardinals, bishops, and priests that support this new take on God’s mercy and many others have been silent - I suppose hoping all this get resolved somehow. The dubia cardinals will make a formal correction and if he doesn’t respond to that then we will have a formal schism - which is already informal but we are all hoping that the pope will call all clergy back to obedience of official catholic teaching. Remember Cardinal Burke is a canon lawyer so he knows what he is doing.
…but consider that we must exchange ideas (news/understanding); few of us are in the loop as to what the Pope and the Vatican are upholding as Truth… not because we are too far removed from the Church’s Magisterium but because Pope Francis is too visible (communicative) about “feelings” and “personal judgments,” while, simultaneously, too removed from making Formal Declarations.
When a headliner hits such as ‘Bishops Giving the Holy Eucharist to adulterers and homosexuals’ it cannot but cause doubts in my mind as to where the Church is heading since the Vatican does not make any clarifying and opposing declarations.
While it is great (or stupendous) to hear Pope Francis speak on God’s Mercy, it is haunting to hear that the means to that Mercy comes at the cost of removing Scriptural Teaching against those who commit themselves to an unrighteous lifestyle.
We cannot have it both ways… we cannot live in friendship with the world and expect to hold God’s Favor and Grace:
[FONT=“Garamond”][size=]4 You adulterous people,[a] don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
(St. James 4:4)
Note that the Holy Spirit is not talking only to married Believers; He is talking to all Believers who become adulterers as they seek to serve others than the True Living God!
…and yes, I fully concur with you on Prayer! We must engage in a huge Prayer circle asking for the Holy Spirit to shed Light on these confusing and trying times.
What is going on is clearly in conflict with official catholic teaching. The pope knows he cannot change official teaching so it seems that, with the help of those who agree with him, he is getting it done in at least some of the dioceses. I don’t think this has ever happened before in the history of our church. I don’t believe there is canon law to cover such a situation - we have what I posted above from vat 1 and 2 and what pope benedict has said on the subject. It’s enough to say that this mess is not the work of the Holy Spirit.
…though I’ve never experience it in real life… the snowball effect does seem to have been missed by the Church; way back when some “Bishops” stated what I understood to be “take things into their own hands” the Church should have risen to the task of clarifying this (these) issue/s through formal declaration… allowing an open wound to fester can only lead to infection, gangrene and poisoning (possible loss of limb and/or life).
Error in judgment does not mean the same as erring for the sake of sensibilities.
What you’ve cited is the wrong teaching of the Church based on what was known. Once the Church understood, as mental health experts made possible, that diminished capacity could cause some to commit suicide she relaxed her teachings on what as formerly held; yet, the Church does not teach blanket suicide (meaning, if some decides to kill him/herself because they lost a loved one, pet, job, wealth, security, health…); moral judgment still goes.
Reducing adultery to ‘well, Jesus didn’t really want people to be shun,’ well that’s just not Biblical… He actually told people to their faces, ‘depart from Me evil doers.’ (St. Matthew 7:21-23)
Earlier, the teaching that slavery was permissible. And this was found in Scripture, no less. That teaching was changed as it should have been.
Really? The Catholic Church Taught that slavery was ok? Did you missed that episode with the Romans where the Church Taught that it was wrong to keep slaves or that episode with the “New World” where monarchs and regular joes were deemed self-excommunicated if they engaged in slavery?
New and better understandings, be they physical, psychological, etc demand that teachings that are rooted in obsolete understandings must be changed.
I fully concur! Yet, the Church cannot Teach that unrighteousness is ok because more people are engaged in it today than they were before or because society has open its heart, mind, and understanding to the plight of the unrighteousness making all things right to balance the “misunderstandings” of the past.
Sin City is not a stop between Heaven and earth; it’s hollowood’s spirituality.
And one other thing. You cite the debate over communion for people in irregular marriages as is currently being discussed in Amoris Laetitia. **Consider this, nowhere in the four Gospels does Christ say anything about who can and cannot “eat his body, and drink his blood”. In fact, a strict reading leads one to believe that Jesus wants all to do so. **
He makes no reference to who is worthy or unworthy. The interpretation of the Lord’s words have been left up to the apostles and their successors. Like other teachings, throughout history as times have progressed, teachings have been modified, amplified, and improved upon in the life of the Church. I think this just might be the action of the Holy Spirit???
I feel you… but I cannot agree with such understanding… did you know that there are people going on about universalism (everyone regardless of their rejection of God or unrighteousness will be eternally saved–some even argue that Satan too will gain salvation); I think that part of the problem is that when they read Sacred Scriptures they form fantastic eisegesis from terms that seem to imply that God wants all to be Saved–they simply leave out the part where Scriptures demonstrate that while God in deed wants all to be Saved, it is man’s freewill that must respond to God’s Call and Grace (Deuteronomy 30:19).
As for the Body and Blood… while it is true that Jesus wants all to Receive Him, it is not true that all want and can in deed Receive Him:
[FONT=“Garamond”][size=]23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
(1 Corinthians 11:23-29)
So yeah, God wants all to be Saved and Receive His Body and Blood… but no, it is not a “right” that man can claim!
I’m not much of a joiner or reader… could you post an excerpt and a link to the evidence?
Personally I don’t think that Pope Francis will be hounded more than any other Catholic; he has made himself a huge target, though–but that’s my take.
I do believe that Catholics must Stand for Christ; it is mandatory:
[FONT=“Garamond”][size=]8 and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.
I don’t mean to be a thorn… but I’m still unaware of what is actually transpiring… some news headlines that this or that is being done… but the media have sold people on the Pope’s teaching that homosexuality is ok from a contorted interpretation of ‘who am I to judge.’
So is there documentation that the Pope/Vatican is ordering that homosexuals and adulterers be Given the Holy Eucharist? Are there parishioners around the globe that are declaiming that their local parishes’ Priests and Bishops are actually Giving the Holy Eucharist to openly known adulterers and homosexuals?
This kind of post both intrigues me and embarrasses me. Many outlandish accusations have been made against Pope Francis. I believe the Catholic Church continues to be under attack and Pope Francis is the perfect target. To repeat this “news” without any true substantiation is Wrong.
A recent blog post by a priest asked for people around the country to comment on whether or not people in their parish knew what was going on - not only did responders say people don’t know or don’t talk about it but that the priest/priests don’t mention it either.
POPE FRANCIS - ‘This is bottom line result, the de facto appraisals are entrusted to the confessors, but at the end of faster or slower paths, all the divorced who ask will be admitted.’ ( NOVEMBER 1, 2015, LA REPUBBLICA)
You are right that there are a lot of attacks on our Pope that are unwarranted but also there is real reason for concern. I follow Catholic news every day and there is real concern among many of us as to where he is leading our church - and if he has the authority to make the changes that are being implemented. I follow reputable sites whose reporting in not questioned - but they do write their stories from a traditional Catholic point of view. The facts are not in question - quotes from our Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops are accurate. I have collected well over 100 links to news stories that clearly show there is a serious problem in our Church. I post in several places around the internet doing what I can to get people to pay attention. Generally, people dismiss any problems or sweep them under the carpet or hope the Holy Spirit will fix things. Not likely, I believe. The few of us that are paying attent think a formal schism will happen now that Cardinal Burke has called for a formal correction of the Pope.These are very sad days for our Church and things will get worse I believe.
the facts speak for themselves - I am not interpreting anything so what you say doesn’t apply to me. I stated in the opening post where the information came from - a highly respected Catholic philosopher. I have links to over 100 news stories from reputable sources that clearly point to a serious problem in our church. What I have done you or any interested Catholic could have done or be doing to help our sisters and brothers become knowledgeable in what is going on. With knowledge comes responsibility and I for one intent to continue doing everything I can to help my fellow Catholics.
that is your particular parish or diocese. We can’t have one diocese doing one thing and another diocese doing or not doing something else. Which diocese is correct and which is in error? The results of this are profound in that some people will be taught wrongly and their eternal salvation will be put in jeopardy.