Can god forgive a person who commits suicide?


#1

I have been reading my book "Did Adam & Eve have belly buttons?" and one question was 1) can someone be forgiven for murder? and 2) how can god change my life? and the second question is followed by "god made you (Gn 1:27; CCC 1). He knows everything you ever did or will do (Rom 8:29-30; CCC 257)."

        Dealing with the first question, if someone was already sorry about themselves going to commit suicide and confessed it before it happened to be a priest. That should make it ok for this sin to be committed, unless its wrong to confess a sin before you do it which i would not know.

        On to the second question, and more to the end of it, if god knows everything we will do, how can anybody not get to heaven. If he knows someone is going to commit suicide how can he let that happen or know it will and do nothing about it? If he knows someone is going to commit suicide, then that person can't be condemned to hell...

        Just my thoughts i would love to hear some opinions.

#2

[quote="sheepskin, post:1, topic:337319"]
I have been reading my book "Did Adam & Eve have belly buttons?" and one question was 1) can someone be forgiven for murder? and 2) how can god change my life? and the second question is followed by "god made you (Gn 1:27; CCC 1). He knows everything you ever did or will do (Rom 8:29-30; CCC 257)."

        Dealing with the first question, if someone was already sorry about themselves going to commit suicide and confessed it before it happened to be a priest. That should make it ok for this sin to be committed, unless its wrong to confess a sin before you do it which i would not know.

[/quote]

If you confess a sin you are going to do and then do it, you are not forgiven in the confessional or anywhere. You must be sorry for what you did to be forgiven. You must vow to try to never repeat it and you must make restitution.

The person who asks for forgiveness with no intention of stopping their sin is not forgiven.

        On to the second question, and more to the end of it, if god knows everything we will do, how can anybody not get to heaven. If he knows someone is going to commit suicide how can he let that happen or know it will and do nothing about it? If he knows someone is going to commit suicide, then that person can't be condemned to hell...

        Just my thoughts i would love to hear some opinions.

God gives us free will. He did not create robots who just are perfect worshipers of God. He created men with a desire for God within them. He wants us to choose him.

Too often people choose themselves of which suicide is the ultimate example of.

To answer the title of your post. God CAN forgive anyone even the person who commits suicide. He is God and can do anything. He is bound by nothing. (Picture him creating the universe here).

But just because he can doesn't mean he does forgive us. We have to ask him too forgive us and strive to accept his gift if grace.

God reaches out his hand to us. All we have to do is reach out and grab it. Too often though we cross our arms and bury our heads and turn away from God and in on ourselves.


#3

Dealing with the first question, if someone was already sorry about themselves going to commit suicide and confessed it before it happened to be a priest. That should make it ok for this sin to be committed, unless its wrong to confess a sin before you do it which i would not know.

There is no way to confess sins beforehand, as by definition the Sacrament of Penance obtains forgiveness from God for sins committed after Baptism. Confession also implies the willness to stop sinning altogether wherefore one should not have any plans for committing them either.

Code of Canon Law, Can. 959

Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning.

On to the second question, and more to the end of it, if god knows everything we will do, how can anybody not get to heaven. If he knows someone is going to commit suicide how can he let that happen or know it will and do nothing about it? If he knows someone is going to commit suicide, then that person can't be condemned to hell...

God gives people the choice between Heaven and Hell, because our love for Him would not be authentic in case we could not deny it. Forcing people to Heaven would not be true love likewise. Yet it is a great miracle of God that He can bring out good things from evil: the Parable of the Tares (St. Matthew 13:24-30) shows that Our Lord allows the wheat and tares intermingle until the end in case wheat would be lost. After all the omniscient God knows better the true consequences of our actions thousands of years forward.


#4

I personally think it wouldn’t be the easiest thing. But in some cases I believe God CAN forgive. I was watching something on suicide victims and the reporters tried figuring out if those who go about committing suicide have a moment of thinking “WRONG CHOICE! I WANT TO LIVE!” yet its too late, they are half way down from falling off a building or the bullet is already killing them. So there was one man on the show who attempted suicide by jumping off a building. It was a failed attempt but he admitted that right after he jumped he completely regretted it on his way down. So I think in some cases, there may be that slight instant, and the person may be crying out to God even though they are already on their way down the building or the impact of the bullet is already killing them. Just like the thief on the cross who at the last second asked Jesus “remember me when you come in your kingdom”. and Jesus replied "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
There is always hope in the Lord. It is up to us to reach out to Him.
:slight_smile:


#5

[quote="Jon_S, post:2, topic:337319"]
If you confess a sin you are going to do and then do it, you are not forgiven in the confessional or anywhere. You must be sorry for what you did to be forgiven. You must vow to try to never repeat it and you must make restitution.

The person who asks for forgiveness with no intention of stopping their sin is not forgiven.

God gives us free will. He did not create robots who just are perfect worshipers of God. He created men with a desire for God within them. He wants us to choose him.

Too often people choose themselves of which suicide is the ultimate example of.

To answer the title of your post. God CAN forgive anyone even the person who commits suicide. He is God and can do anything. He is bound by nothing. (Picture him creating the universe here).

But just because he can doesn't mean he does forgive us. We have to ask him too forgive us and strive to accept his gift if grace.

God reaches out his hand to us. All we have to do is reach out and grab it. Too often though we cross our arms and bury our heads and turn away from God and in on ourselves.

[/quote]

WOah there friend let's not generalize like that. Not everyone who commits suicide is choosing themsleves over God. Many people who commit suicide are suffering from extreme mental diseases. SOme are facing terror and desperation. I've heard of POW's commiting suicide before their turn at torture comes around. I have a difficult time labeling these people as being selfish and choosing themselves over God. They're not every case, to be sure, but neither is the other


#6

I don't know God's mind by any means, but it occurs to me that you can't confess sins in advance. I mean, when you go to confession, one part of the Act of contrition states that you are "truly sorry for all sins". If you have already decided to commit suicide and have no plans not to do so, how could you honestly say that you were truly sorry for the sin--but still planned to commit it? To me, that's a bit like trying to slide one past God and I have a feeling that it just doesn't work that way! I think that if a person is suffering with a desire to end their life, however, that it is not only appropriate but a GREAT idea to speak about it to the priest in confession. Doing so might give a person the grace to not do so.


#7

[quote="Jon_S, post:2, topic:337319"]
To answer the title of your post. God CAN forgive anyone even the person who commits suicide.** He is God and can do anything. He is bound by nothing. **(Picture him creating the universe here).

[/quote]

I think that is mistaken.
If God is just then he He cannot violate His own integrity or His own nature (however to express it) by forgiving unrepentant sinners.

I think this is like "can God make a square circle?" I would say no because He created the universe in which circles are round, IOW square circles cannot exist.


#8

But, as the CCC states when dealing with suicide - we cannot know the extent of God’s mercy. My step-mother, after several strokes and in severe depression, committed suicide. Is it possible that God would have mercy on her, given her psychological state? Absolutely.

Clinton


#9

[quote="clintondyches, post:8, topic:337319"]
But, as the CCC states when dealing with suicide - we cannot know the extent of God's mercy. My step-mother, after several strokes and in severe depression, committed suicide. Is it possible that God would have mercy on her, given her psychological state? Absolutely.

Clinton

[/quote]

Yes! God's forgiveness is not guaranteed, but the possibility certainly exists.

May God have mercy on your step-mother's soul!


#10

Firstly, Confession is not a hall pass, to allow you to do something forbidden in the future.
Secondly, God knows what we will do, just as he knew he would be betrayed; however we have been given free will and cannot expect God to stop us from doing wrong if we freely choose to do so. He can however be the first not to throw the first stone.
We do not know the mind of God, however many posters have rightly recognised that it is not our place to judge a suicide as having our perception or state of mind. Many are subject to mental illness or severe chronic depression. Again a loving God would be the first to see their state of mind and strain to look for extenuating circumstances. All we can do is pray for them and look at ourselves and judge why we were not there to help them.


#11

[quote="sheepskin, post:1, topic:337319"]
I have been reading my book "Did Adam & Eve have belly buttons?" and one question was 1) can someone be forgiven for murder? and 2) how can god change my life? and the second question is followed by "god made you (Gn 1:27; CCC 1). He knows everything you ever did or will do (Rom 8:29-30; CCC 257)."

        Dealing with the first question, if someone was already sorry about themselves going to commit suicide and confessed it before it happened to be a priest. That should make it ok for this sin to be committed, unless its wrong to confess a sin before you do it which i would not know.

        On to the second question, and more to the end of it, if god knows everything we will do, how can anybody not get to heaven. If he knows someone is going to commit suicide how can he let that happen or know it will and do nothing about it? If he knows someone is going to commit suicide, then that person can't be condemned to hell...

        Just my thoughts i would love to hear some opinions.

[/quote]

We must remain focus on the basic truth of our existence to answer your questions. We are all given life with a single purpose ....to love God, know of this love and practice this love in light with Christ. We must be true to ourselves not to hurt God by our selfish action.

Life given to us is a gift, use this gift wisely because it is only God who could take this gift as He wished and not ours to decide. Though we have free will given to choose what is right and wrong, God will give us all the opportunity to bring us back. As long as our faith and hope to seek our salvation is in par with His Son Jesus who was sent as an example. Even with our trials and difficulties, we must keep asking ourselves how to be like him and imitate him as close as we can.


#12

[quote="sheepskin, post:1, topic:337319"]
I have been reading my book "Did Adam & Eve have belly buttons?" and one question was 1) can someone be forgiven for murder? and 2) how can god change my life? and the second question is followed by "god made you (Gn 1:27; CCC 1). He knows everything you ever did or will do (Rom 8:29-30; CCC 257)."

        Dealing with the first question, if someone was already sorry about themselves going to commit suicide and confessed it before it happened to be a priest. That should make it ok for this sin to be committed, unless its wrong to confess a sin before you do it which i would not know.

[/quote]

As others have already pointed out - confessing the intent to commit a sin does not make it OK to proceed.

I think that what you are talking about here is the sin of presumption which is an aspect of the sin of pride, one of the seven deadly sins.

The person who would try to do this would be presuming on God's Mercy and forgiveness when they themselves are not truly repentant and have no intention of avoiding the sin.

        On to the second question, and more to the end of it, if god knows everything we will do, **how can anybody not get to heaven**. If he knows someone is going to commit suicide how can he let that happen or know it will and do nothing about it? If he knows someone is going to commit suicide, then that person can't be condemned to hell...

The simple answer to this question (bolded) is that one simply chooses not to go to heaven. It is much more about what we choose than what God chooses for us.

Free will, combined with God's perfect Love is a tricky thing.

To help understand this I often refer people to the description of the particular judgement given by God to St Catherine of Sienna.

In a nutshell it describes how each person, at the moment of death, reaches out to that which to which they have given their heart. Those who have rejected Love and chosen evil in their lives reach out to that evil in death. Those who have chosen love and been perfected in that love immediately enter heaven. Those who have chosen love but are not yet perfected reach out to God's mercy - and these go to purgatory.

Click HERE and go down to the 6th paragraph for more detail

Just my thoughts i would love to hear some opinions.

Be careful what you wish for....:D

Hope our relies are being helpful to you.

Peace
James


#13

The physical process of dying takes time.

During those moments, a person can express sorrow for sin and beg God for forgiveness. It is God Who knows culpability.

We should never underestimate the power of God to reach a soul.
And we should never underestimate the power of a soul to respond to God’s mercy.


#14

[quote="clintondyches, post:8, topic:337319"]
But, as the CCC states when dealing with suicide - we cannot know the extent of God's mercy. My step-mother, after several strokes and in severe depression, committed suicide. Is it possible that God would have mercy on her, given her psychological state? Absolutely.

Clinton

[/quote]

OK, I was replying to the idea God was "not bound by anything" not saying He would never forgive a suicide.

I am sorry about your stepmother. I agree (and hope) God would have mercy on her.
But I think we make a mistake speak of God's mercy as opposed His mercy as if He's in a game of tug-of-war with himself. They are two sides of the same coin.
I suspect God would be merciful to your stepmom as a matter of justice given her mental state.


#15

I worked in a Psychiatric hospital for many years..I saw things that most people would not believe humans are capable of doing..I saw many attempts at suicide..after witnessing the things I saw I would never presume to judge them by quoting scripture or even assuming as to the state of their eternal soul..anyone who works with those with mental illness has to have compassion for those poor souls..yet Gods love..mercy and compassion is far greater than we can comprehend..most suicides are a last act of desperation..not in some controlled situation where they are seeking confession from a priest..and then assessing whether committing suicide after confession would make that an invalid confession in the eyes of God therefore damning their soul to hell.. :)


#16

Very true


#17

The Catechism says:

2282 Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

We don't know what happens in those last few seconds; God is merciful; His ways are not our ways.


#18

Jesus said “what father among you would give your son a stone if he asked for bread .”

Likewise, **if we who are sinners **can forgive those who have shortened their lives, is our mercy greater than Almighty God ?


#19

I think your absolutly right! and I believe God will be the judge.


#20

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