Can homosexuals have traditional values?

I have never slept around and waited for the right person to do so. We have been together for 8 years now. I do not believe in divorce, no drugs or anything. Good badly traditional values kind of person. The thing is I have Sosa. To complicated it my partner is going through RICA.Also, to make it more complicated we have a baby. I have a kind of solution to all this we can live together as chaste. Sometimes I think this can be done but other times it feels like it would just be easier if religion wasn’t involved. We did pay a few vista to the American Catholic church but I do not agree about their views accepting married and female priests. I feel if we were with them or no religion at all this will be so much easier.I want to raise my son up with good, strong morals but how? I LOVE the Roman Catholic church but feel rejected so much.Some gave me the website of the Courage group and I have emailed them wanting to join but have yet to hear from them.What do I do?

Don’t email Courage, show up.

Are you living in a near occasion of sin? Because if my genes were attuned to eating like a farmer, ie 6 eggs for breakfast, and I had a desk job in the city, and all I kept in the house for breakfast was eggs, I’d be frustrated too.

(Strange analogy, I know.)

I’ve actually known devout Catholic gay people; it certainly is possible to be gay and moral.

Your relationship would have to be without sexual expression. Do keep in mind that real love doesn’t need sex to express it.

Traditional values are based on the sanctity of human life and the dignity of the human person. From these emerges the family as the fundamental social building block. The purpose of family is to raise children in the best possible environment; the environment that is the natural family structure provided to man by God (or nature if you prefer). The purpose of sex is to produce children within a legitimate marriage, nothing more.

If you dissent from that view of the human family, then you at least lack traditional values in that particular area. Most likely that error will lead to others, and I can see you also have issues with the inability of the Church to ordain women priests. There probably are other errors in addition to these, because you have compromised the truth, which is a kind of pride and sin of its own right. Sin grows like a cancer in the hearts and minds of humans as well as human societies.

Consider what life is like for heterosexual Catholics who spouses decided to divorce them, destroying their families, and leaving them completely out of luck in their vocation as a parent and spouse. Such Catholics are in a similar boat. But those who stay with the Church recognize that God comes first always.

We all have sinful urges and predispositions. We are supposed to overcome them, not internalize them in our very character. When I was first divorced, it seemed completely hopeless to me that I could somehow live the rest of my life without sex of any kind. It seemed impossible. But one day God granted me the grace to move past it. Now I cannot imagine doing something to break my relationship to God and His Church.

Fair disclosure: I do have an annulment. But I have difficulty believing the veracity of the annulment due to the corrupt process that brought it about. So I remain celibate. Until the previous year, I thought living a celibate life was an enormous burden even if I did receive the graces to do it. Now I feel a bit differently. I am coming to the belief that I would be far better off spiritually living a celibate life. For one thing, it allows me spend a great deal of time in prayer and focused on God, including praying for the soul of my ex-wife who remains trapped in the occult and the more dangerous liberal ideologies such as the homosexual lifestyle.

The chief boon I have noticed is an increasing mastery over my body and mind. I am still weak, but God slowly helps me to reject temptation outright and to actually take control of my life and body. I find the liberal ideology, in contrast, extremely disempowering. The belief that we are slaves to our bodies’ sexual appetites and hopeless to control our bodies robs the believer of self-mastery. He becomes a slave to his desires and bodily temptations. He reduces himself to nothing more than sex, which he accepts as his sole defining trait rather than his belief and faith in God. Thus we see first commandment sins deriving directly from sixth commandment sins.

Another result of such an ideology is to remove God from the Kingdom of God. Such persons tend to seek a worldly kingdom of God (a utopia) through political action when no such Earthly kingdom is possible due to our fallen nature. Such persons tend to project onto the Church those same political attitudes as if the body of Christ is a political body which we can alter and corrupt based upon majority votes. It simply doesn’t work that way.

You must submit yourself to truth, which means submitting yourself to God. Submitting yourself to God means you set aside your momentary difficulties in understanding his teachings and live by them while seeking to better understand them. If you do not do this, and try to fight to change Church dogma like you would in partisan politics, then I would suggest you might not truly believe God or at least lack true faith in His plan for you and the world.

Absolutely nothing in Church dogma is wrong. These teachings help to preserve the dignity and sanctity of human life. They preserve the welfare of families, especially the character and disposition of children in those families. Violating any of these teachings, especially the ten commandments, leads to death or needless suffering, every time.

Rete,

Your post includes a number of unfounded assumptions about Blessed Is He, including the idea that she is trying to subvert the traditional family, that she is a liberal, that she supports women priests, and so on. Also, the idea that submitting herself to the Church is the solution glosses over some very real practical problems she has. What, in practical terms, does it mean for a person in her situation to submit herself to the Church?

Sometimes, we have to be persistent. (I’ve had similar experiences with not being able to get in touch with people in the Church I need to, so persistence is needed.) I went to the Courage site, and under “Contact Us”, they have a phone number. If email isn’t working, “up the ante” so to speak.

Courage Contact Us

I made no such assumption about that poster.

Not possible. One of the most frustrating things about Courage is that everything is extremely secret. There is an elaborate entry process, designed (I guess) to weed out impostors. But it keeps out people seeking help, often as not.

If that is the case, then it seems like people who have made contact with them could be introduced to the OP, so they can speed the process of the OPs contact.

Homosexuals can have very traditional values. But if they are practicing sodomites, that is hardly a traditional value.

I find it incredibly telling that we all spend our days wondering what to do about the poor divorced and remarried Catholics and their communion predicament, while we have same sex attracted Catholics who could use a little pastoral care, but are met with hostility from other sinners, as though one sin is unspeakable.

Both are mortal sin. One isn’t more scandalous than the other.

To be marriage, it must be open to fruitfulness. The visible reality of fruitfulness is children; priests (eschatological marriage): spiritual fathers, earthly marriage: physical fathers.

The reality of love is charity, the giving of one’s life for another. Charity would concern itself with the eternal life of the soul over the temporal. Meaning: cease any relations outside of marital relations. (Man and woman, as defined by God). For your soul, your partner’s soul and your child’s soul. Eternity is only a breath away and this is real love.

Have courage. Jesus didn’t pour himself out for some and not for others, but the Holy Spirit is calling you to see that he came for you too.

No one is free from sin, but Jesus. Temptation is always around the corner, find a mentor and know that every person is a creation of God. Maybe read some Divine Mercy devotions.

Of course homosexuals can have traditional values! :slight_smile: :yup:

First of all, homosexuals are called to be chaste. :yup:

Listen, the Catholic Church is about the Truth. There is not going to women priests. Married priests----happens in rare cases, such as when married Protestant ministers convert.

As someone said about Courage “show up”. Take the initiative. If you want your kid or anyone else you are teaching morals to, you’ve got to be proactive.

Only you can really answer this. You and your friend already are raising a child together, correct? Based on the above, is the relationship primarily characterized by agape and filia types of love (look 'em up) or is eros inseparably involved? Personally, I’d probably fail at living with a woman, raising a child together and NOT having recurring eros. But then again, you and I are not necessarily wired the same. Is the relationship fundamentally unchanged if the kissing, cuddling and naked stuff ends? If so, I see no reason you could not be lifelong roomates and faithful catholics. But if the intimacy of living together is going to lead to physical intimacy, I can’t see any way around the cognitive dissonance of saying you are a believing catholic, but refusing to be a completely believing catholic.

We live in a society today that fundamentally rejects the possibility of real intimacy between people of the same sex that does NOT include erotic intimacy. And that’s really, really sad. Know yourself and decide for yourself. Heck, give it a try and see if you’re not sure. Maybe society has it wrong and God has it right after all.

Does courage have a phone number where youcan call?AMaybe try to contact them again and look for phone numbers. Also remember Jesus himself said that the road to heaven is extremely hard and painful, and he also said that most choose the easy road (to hell) because following him is not easy. Think about your reward at the end. This lifeois temporarily and eternal life is forever. All the sacrifices you do here will pay off on the next life.

Thank you for all your advice

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