I suppose that refers to myself. But I am pointing out governmental functions that have existed for millennia.
I wouldn’t. How would you prevent an abortion clinic from being set up in your world?
Yeah? How have those “governmental functions” been working out for you?
So you’re not actually pro-life. You say there won’t be any abortion clinics in your ideal Anarcho-Catholic world, yet you won’t actually do anything to prevent them from popping up. Your position is untenable and logically inconsistent.
Really? So show me how righteous your position is? Show me how many abortion clinics you’ve prevented from being built.
Being in the world of evil doesn’t make me evil, nor does it force me to partake.
I’m not advocating for an Anarcho-Catholic world. You are. You said your ideal world wouldn’t have abortion clinics and yet when asked how you would ensure that there wouldn’t be clinics, you said there would be nothing to ensure that.
Did Jesus approve of brothels? What did He do to prevent brothels from being open for business? By your logic, even Jesus was evil.
Do you remember saying there wouldn’t be abortion clinics in your world?
Of course. My memory isn’t that bad. In my ideal world, I could also eat all the junk food I wanted and still be healthy. Life isn’t perfect, is it?
I have a title to my home that is accepted by all of society. My house was broken into once, the police were really great in handling the situation. I can easily drive, one good roads, where ever I need to get. Goods are delivered to stores I shop in on the same roads. I have aunts and uncles whose lives are well supplemented things such as with social security and medicare that enables them to be secure. Myself, and wife, and older children have attened state universities that have allowed us to have productive careers. I could go on and on. In many ways, it has worked out fabulously. Our society has a standard of living that is unprecedented in the history of the world.
Are their problems? you bet. Are we off track? most certainly. We have abandoned subsidiarity, it could very well end in disaster if we don’t fix it.
If government is bad, then explain this:
They sent their disciples to him, with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are a truthful man and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. And you are not concerned with anyone’s opinion, for you do not regard a person’s status.
Tell us, then, what is your opinion: Is it lawful to pay the census tax to Caesar or not?”
Knowing their malice, Jesus said, “Why are you testing me, you hypocrites?Show me the coin that pays the census tax.” Then they handed him the Roman coin. He said to them, “Whose image is this and whose inscription?”
They replied, “Caesar’s.”
At that he said to them, “Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away. (Matt. 22:16-22)
Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. (Rom. 13:1-2)
The Church has never taught that government is bad or that it is impossible for a government to exist without violating rights. Where did you get that idea?
You just described a bunch of things that could be done better and more efficiently without the State.
That doesn’t say whether the government is bad or good. It says to pay your taxes. Jesus also told us to make friends with the Mammon of unrighteousness.
Talk to you all later. Got to get back to work!
When in the New Testament is the government ever cited as a posing a danger to eternal life? When are Christians ever told to oppose it–even a government such as they had? Warnings against wealth and love of money, meanwhile, were frequent!
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be.
“The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with light; but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be in darkness. And if the light in you is darkness, how great will the darkness be.
“No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Matt 6:19-23)
Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, “You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.” At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. So Jesus again said to them in reply, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Give me an example of when and where that occurred?
Also, I was answering your question about how it has worked out for me. And the honest answer is, pretty dang well. So your example will need to be better than Somalia for one decade.
I don’t want to go too far off topic from the OP, but I think that it is worth pointing out that the U.S. has abortion clinics because of government intervention, not in spite of it.
In an anarchist society the community could agree to prevent abortion clinics, but this is not possible in the U.S. due to government authority and force.
@Ghosty1981 , not too far off topic at all. It is a good example and exactly pertinent to the discussion
Of course, I have no understanding about anarchy, but I will comment anyway. Yes, in a society without a hierarchy, a community could agree to prevent abortion clinics, if and only if there was some level of community government. Assuming that is the case, that is not an argument for anarchy. A multi-level system of government, built correctly, such that no level assumed a power that should be exercised below could do the same thing.
Having said that, with respect to the issue of abortion, is that what we really want. Lets be clear, we all believe life should be protected everywhere, not just in the community we happen to live.
You’re right that it isn’t an argument for anarchy. It is a rebuttal to the argument that government prevents abortion while anarchy does not.
Peace and God bless!
You miss the entire philosophy of anarchy. The whole idea of it is that we don’t have to agree on anything. It’s not a democracy. It’s not a republic. It’s not a monarchy. It’s people living in complete diversity and freedom. As long as you don’t harm me, you can do anything you want. When you talk about people agreeing on a subject, you are so far off the topic of anarchy, you may as well be selling us Girl Scout cookies.
No matter what society you live in, there will always be areas of disagreement. Even in an anarchist world, which admittedly is utopian, nobody is going to completely agree. As I explained regarding abortion, some will hold that the NAP applies to the mother while others hold that it applies to the baby. I can’t fix that. You can’t fix that. You can’t fix it in your perfect world either. Some things are just going to be left up to God to sort out and I’m fine with that. Regarding abortion, I will have a clear conscience when I stand before him one day. So, not to be rude, but what you think of that matters to me not one whit. You’re not my judge.