Can I Kneel


#1

So I guess I've been asking a lot of questions in this part of the forum lately :)

At my parish we don't kneel during the Eucharistic prayer. This isn't because of safely (we knelt just fine during the gospel reading for Good Friday). The two reasons that I've heard for this were the absence of kneelers and parish custom. From my knowledge these aren't good reasons to not kneel; considering this, can I still kneel at the appropriate times? Or is doing so too much of a breach on parish unity? Also, it was suggested that everyone stands after receiving the Eucharist because we don't have kneelers and that to do so would break parish unity. We were told that if we need to kneel we won't be stopped. Since kneeling at this time is optional would it be unwise to do so?

Thanks


Should I Assume Host Fragment
#2

[quote="C794, post:1, topic:321496"]
So I guess I've been asking a lot of questions in this part of the forum lately :)

At my parish we don't kneel during the Eucharistic prayer. This isn't because of safely (we knelt just fine during the gospel reading for Good Friday). The two reasons that I've heard for this were the absence of kneelers and parish custom. From my knowledge these aren't good reasons to not kneel; considering this, can I still kneel at the appropriate times? Or is doing so too much of a breach on parish unity? Also, it was suggested that everyone stands after receiving the Eucharist because we don't have kneelers and that to do so would break parish unity. We were told that if we need to kneel we won't be stopped. Since kneeling at this time is optional would it be unwise to do so?

Thanks

[/quote]

I attended a parish like this and contacted the Bishop. Kneelers came shortly thereafter but there are those who still stand most kneel now. If you have room to kneel, than kneel.


#3

I think not having kneelers is a good reason not to kneel. Often if I get to Mass late, I stand in the back and stand the whole time. According to the GIRM though, if you stand, you should make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration.

A couple weeks ago I went to a church without kneelers and everyone sat during the consecration! Luckily I was in the rear-most row so I could stand without standing out. If the practice isn't to stand, people may end up sitting if there are no kneelers.


#4

Universal norm trumps “parish unity” every time.


#5

I spent two summers in another state where they did not kneel. There were only three pews that had kneelers. I did my best to sit in those pews but when I couldn't I just knelt on the floor. I have no patience for parishes that discourage kneeling. There's no point in it and I don't think parishes have the right to create their own "custom" on the subject.


#6

[quote="C794, post:1, topic:321496"]
So I guess I've been asking a lot of questions in this part of the forum lately :)

At my parish we don't kneel during the Eucharistic prayer. This isn't because of safely (we knelt just fine during the gospel reading for Good Friday). The two reasons that I've heard for this were the absence of kneelers and parish custom. From my knowledge these aren't good reasons to not kneel; considering this, can I still kneel at the appropriate times? Or is doing so too much of a breach on parish unity? Also, it was suggested that everyone stands after receiving the Eucharist because we don't have kneelers and that to do so would break parish unity. We were told that if we need to kneel we won't be stopped. Since kneeling at this time is optional would it be unwise to do so?

Thanks

[/quote]

I kneel regardless.


#7

To be clear, the norm is to kneel unless you have "reasonable cause" not to in which case you stand and make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration.

I would include lack of kneelers in "reasonable cause." In either case, you're always free to kneel.


#8

I want to add a quote I found from the Notitiae, 14 302-303 from 1978. It states:

"The appointments of a place of worship have some relationship to the customs of the particular locale. For example, in the East there are carpets; in the Roman basilicas,only since modern times, there are usually chairs without kneelers, so as to accommodate large crowds. There is nothing to prevent the faithful from kneeling on the floor to show their adoration, no matter how uncomfortable this may be. In cases where kneeling is not possible RE: GIRM element 21), a deep bow and a respectful bearing are signs of the reverence and adoration to be shown at the time of consecration and Communion."

This seems to indicate that we should kneel even without kneelers.

Thanks for the replies


#9

From the GIRM

Movements and Posture

  1. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.[52] Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.

  1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.


#10

I am in lay formation at my seminary. We sometimes meet in a converted residence hall that has a chapel. But, there are no kneelers in this chapel. Every one of us kneels on the floor. We remember that we kneel out of adoration for our Precious Lord . . a few minutes on the floor hasn't killed any of us.


#11

[quote="JM3, post:9, topic:321496"]
From the GIRM

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

[/quote]

Does this mean that I should stand along with the rest of my parish?


#12

[quote="C794, post:11, topic:321496"]
Does this mean that I should stand along with the rest of my parish?

[/quote]

You should obey your priest.


#13

[quote="Suslar, post:10, topic:321496"]
I am in lay formation at my seminary. We sometimes meet in a converted residence hall that has a chapel. But, there are no kneelers in this chapel. Every one of us kneels on the floor. We remember that we kneel out of adoration for our Precious Lord . . a few minutes on the floor hasn't killed any of us.

[/quote]

AMEN~


#14

Nothing wrong with kneeling. Nothing wrong with sitting as well if that is the custom approved by the priest.


#15

[quote="C794, post:11, topic:321496"]
Does this mean that I should stand along with the rest of my parish?

[/quote]

No, it means that the deacon or priest is exercising his rightful authority *if he is giving instructions according to the Missal. * In some cases those instructions indicate a choice but during the Consecration, there is no choice indicated. You should obey the instructions in the Missal.


#16

Per, Michelle Arnold (copied from her answer to this question, on Jan. 17, 2005):

"In the United States, the norm from the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (2002) is as follows:

Quote:
In the dioceses of the United States of America, they [the congregation] should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the eucharistic prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise.

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the missal (GIRM 43).
In short, in the United States, unless there is some good reason why people are prevented from kneeling during the Consecration, they should kneel. If they stand, they should make a profound bow when the priest genuflects following the Consecration. Lack of kneelers is not a sufficient excuse for not kneeling; it is only an indication that kneeling is going to be uncomfortable, not impossible. As for the unity question, the primary responsibility is to be in union with the liturgical rubrics set forth by the Holy See and the local bishops conference, as the GIRM indicates when it qualifies following clerical instructions as to posture by saying that the postures mandated must be in accord to the missal.


#17

[quote="corki, post:15, topic:321496"]
no, it means that the deacon or priest is exercising his rightful authority *if he is giving instructions according to the missal. * in some cases those instructions indicate a choice but during the consecration, there is no choice indicated. You should obey the instructions in the missal.

[/quote]

right on!!!!


#18

Thanks it's good to know that I'm able to kneel. It was becoming very difficult for me to remain standing at these points in the Mass; especially since I knew that kneeling was the norm.


#19

I kneel no matter if others don't. Only the first-row pews have kneelers, so I normally kneel directly on the floor. Good for you for wanting to kneel during this vital moment of the Mass! :thumbsup:


#20

[quote="Suslar, post:10, topic:321496"]
I am in lay formation at my seminary. We sometimes meet in a converted residence hall that has a chapel. But, there are no kneelers in this chapel. Every one of us kneels on the floor. We remember that we kneel out of adoration for our Precious Lord . . a few minutes on the floor hasn't killed any of us.

[/quote]

You have young knees!:thumbsup:


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