Can Popes just make up rules?


#1

Are the seven deadly sins in the Bible? Wasn’t it a Pope that
made that up, so why has it become a Catholic rule when a Pope just came up with it?

Can religious leaders just make something up?

Why can’t we just concentrate on the Bible?

How do we know that the things they come up with are valid?


#2

[quote=biz]Are the seven deadly sins in the Bible? Wasn’t it a Pope that
made that up, so why has it become a Catholic rule when a Pope just came up with it?

Can religious leaders just make something up?

Why can’t we just concentrate on the Bible?

How do we know that the things they come up with are valid?
[/quote]

the 7 deadly sins aren’t a rule, its just a saying. Yes, the Pope can say things just like any Christian preacher. Some saying from preaching becoem popular; soem do not. Things the Pope preaches are more likely.

The Pope has the same limitations on him as King Canute had.


#3

[quote=biz]Are the seven deadly sins in the Bible? Wasn’t it a Pope that
made that up, so why has it become a Catholic rule when a Pope just came up with it?

Can religious leaders just make something up?

Why can’t we just concentrate on the Bible?

How do we know that the things they come up with are valid?
[/quote]

It may not say in the bible, “these are the seven deadly sins” but they are in there.

The church does not derive its teachings from the bible. The church follows both tradition and scripture.

They don’t just make things up. What they teach has been taught throughout the whole history of the church. You can go through the church fathers and find all the teachings of the Catholic Church.

We know they are true because Christ said that the gates of hell shall never prevail against his church. His church will always be here and it will not teach error as the truth.


#4

Why can’t we just stick to the Bible?


#5

What do you mean, “make things up?”

After all, didn’t Jesus speak in parables? What ARE parables, anyway? They are stories. What are stories? Why, they are “made up” tales.

Jesus “made up” the Pharisee and the tax collector. Jesus “made up” the Good Samaritan. Jesus “made up” the Prodigal Son and his father.

But what did He “make them up” FROM?
Did Pharisees exist? Sure they did. Did some of them have pretty large egos? Yep.
Did tax collectors exist? Yes indeedy. Were some of them sinners? Were some of them SORRY for being sinners? Uh-huh.

Did good people live in Samaria? Of course–there are good, and bad, people EVERYWHERE.

Did some children make wrong decisions, live immoral lives, regret it, and come back to apologize to their parents? Sure. Did some of the parents forgive those children? Yes.

So, just what are you claiming was “made up?” The seven deadly sins? What, you think a Pope “pulled them out of his hat?”

Do pride, envy, lust, gluttony, sloth, hatred and anger not exist?
Were they INVENTED by the Pope?

Are there sins that you think are MORE deadly? Are these just “little piddly things” not worth worrying about?

Let’s see. Pride–Jesus talked about that a lot. (Pharisees). Envy–hey, that too. Lust–yep, he talked about that (committing adultery). Gluttony-hello, rich man and Lazarus. Sloth–woe to Jerusalem. Hatred–let’s see, who was crucified? Anger–I believe Jesus even whipped the moneychangers from the temple.

And what “Catholic rule” do we have about the 7 deadly sins? Not to do them–JUST them? Forget anything else? I think not.

I think you need to do some SERIOUS research into what you THINK the Catholic Church is, and what it does or doesn’t teach. Might I recommend Father John Hardin’s short Catechism of the Catholic Church–it’s clear, concise, and easy to understand.

God bless.


#6

[quote=biz]Why can’t we just stick to the Bible?

[/quote]

Even though the bible is true, it does not contain everything. It says that we need to follow the traditions.


#7

I appreciate your insight Tantum ergo, as these are honest questions… I just wish you would be kinder with your replies.

It doesn’t help when you come across angry.

your reply could turn a person off who is trying to understand and learn the faith. I am a confused Catholic, that’s why I ask the questions… but I don’t deserve to be treated like an ignorant sinner.

gosh, such a turn off. Aren’t we supposed to be more patient to those who are willing to understand?

Look at it this way… if I want to learn more, wouldn’t that reply scare me away?

I believe this is one reason why some Catholics are driven away to more welcoming churches as they are treated better. A lot of people are converting to other religions, is this how we treat lost Catholics who are trying to hold on to their faith?


#8

:Wasn’t it a Pope that
made that up,:

No, it wasn’t a Pope. The seven deadly sins developed over time in monastic spirituality–the Egyptian monk Evagrius Ponticus is credited with the first formulation (4th century), though he actually listed eight. John Cassian made the list popular in the West. I believe that Pope Gregory I did help popularize the list, but he certainly didn’t make it up. St. Benedict of Nursia (6th century, a little earlier than Pope Gregory) did a lot to make this the standard list, I believe.

As Christianity develops throughout history, various ways of understanding Scripture develop and Christians adopt them as they find them helpful. You can’t reduce Christianity to just Scripture. In fact no one does, but some Protestants use this slogan as a way of stripping away the aspects of Christian tradition they happen not to like. Catholics and traditional Protestants (I’d put myself in the latter category) see ourselves as bound to take seriously the whole development of Christianity historically. We can’t just leap back to the first century. We are formed by everything that has happened since. We disagree on just what is binding and how (Protestants don’t believe that the Church is infallible), but we all need to take tradition seriously and only disagree with it when there is very good reason to do so.

Most of the things that have developed in Christianity are not “rules” and are not just made up on the spot. That’s not how things work–that’s how fundamentalists see it and they reduce everything to that. (You may have encountered the list some fundamentalists give of Catholic “inventions” with dates attached–it’s a very silly list because most of the things listed developed gradually for good reasons and weren’t just made up at a specific date.)

In Christ,

Edwin


#9

[quote=biz]Why can’t we just stick to the Bible?

[/quote]

Hello biz, all the sins mentioned are mentioned in the Bible, but not sequental, did you know that the word Bible isn’t in the Bible ?


#10

[quote=biz]I appreciate your insight Tantum ergo, as these are honest questions… I just wish you would be kinder with your replies.

It doesn’t help when you come across angry.

your reply could turn a person off who is trying to understand and learn the faith. I am a confused Catholic, that’s why I ask the questions… but I don’t deserve to be treated like an ignorant sinner.

gosh, such a turn off. Aren’t we supposed to be more patient to those who are willing to understand?

Look at it this way… if I want to learn more, wouldn’t that reply scare me away?

I believe this is one reason why some Catholics are driven away to more welcoming churches as they are treated better. A lot of people are converting to other religions, is this how we treat lost Catholics who are trying to hold on to their faith?
[/quote]

biz,

Sometimes it is difficult to tell who is asking an honest question, and who is “Catholic bashing”. Tantum’s response would have been better if it were less angry. Perhaps we should just assume that people are curious until such time that they become “abusive”, there are many people on this board that are in the same situation as you are, and I think that we all want to help them understand the faith.

If you have any other questions I would be more than happy to try to help, as I am sure many others are. It does help now that I know where you are coming from. Keep hanging on, this is such a beautiful faith it would be terrible to lose it. I also was in the same situation, and honestly, once I looked at the origin and history of Catholicism, and did some studying I found that there is nowhere that the truth is more present than the Church.

I will come back with some resaurces for you on this.:slight_smile:


#11

I’ll let others tell you why the pope can’t just make stuff up.

But I will remind you that we remain deeply troubled by the Protestant invention that all generations shall NOT call Mary Blessed.

God have mercy on your soul.


#12

Thank you Contarini, great post… very well put. You wrote beautifully.

Thank you also, e-catholic (Tracy).


#13

O.K. here is a transcript from a lecture given by Dr. Scott Hahn. Dr. Hahn is a former Presbyterian minister, so he comes from a “Sola Scriptura” (scripture only) background. Although I have not read this particular transcript, I know that he is great at addressing where Catholic teaching can be found in the bible, and coupling that with tradition. Dr. Hahn has a wonderful conversion story also, you might want to check that out sometime. This was the first thing I found on the Pope by him when I searched, I will come back with more resources when I have time to find them.

You are in my prayers.:gopray2:

star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/pp.html

also his links page.

mindspring.com/~jdarcy/files/drhahn.html


#14

Biz, if my CAPS make me sound angry, I apologize–that’s the way I write, often forgetting that on the internet, CAPS = shout.

But it seems to me that you overlook my “God bless” with which I ended my post.

Angry? I’m not angry. Passionate about my God and the faith I live? Yep. Could I have phrased it better? Of course–there’s always room for improvement.

I’m not angry.
But I wish that you would have not attempted to make a proposed “excuse” for yours–or anyone elses’–putative “being turned off by my reply”.

umm, that could be seen as a way to attempt to put the blame, not on that person’s <>, but on the nameless, faceless “angry person” who <> turned them off.

If I can–and I do–apologize for my “appearance” of anger, I respectfully request that you might consider an apology for <> “appearance” of injustice in implying that my would be responsible for the loss of a soul.

Thank you, and God bless.


#15

[quote=biz]Why can’t we just stick to the Bible?

[/quote]

Jesus founded a Church to lead us, the Church Christ founded, the Catholic Church, gave us the Bible as a tool to use. Some in the last 500 years now claim the tool is greater then the mechanic that uses it. We didn’t even have a Bible for hundreds of years after Jesus rose from the dead. We don’t need a Bible to get to heaven but we do need His Church to share with use His Faith. The early Katholics had Faith and shared Faith and had a hope for salvation from that Faith. The Bible is great and usefull but Faith is essential. I can have Faith without Scripture but Scripture does not give me Faith. Scripture teaches me about my Faith but that Faith came from the Church Christ founded. The same Church that wrote, cannonised, preserved, protected, declared inspired and often died for the complete 73 book Bible.

The Bible is just one part of His Church. Taking the Bible alone would be like saying we no longer need a President or Congress in the US, just a Supreme Court. We don’t need a constitution just the amendments. Its a ludicrous thought.


#16

Try Galations 5:19 etc… They’re not called the seven deadly sins, but they are all there. It is not unusual that some things in scripture get called something else and can’t be found under the alternative name. :thumbsup:


#17

[quote=biz]Why can’t we just stick to the Bible?

[/quote]

I’ll give you a prime example, the Bible does not tell you if there there are 73 books in the Bible or if there are 66, or if there are more than 73. Christians differ on what the Bible is, so “just sticking to the Bible” is absurd, if you are like Martin Luther and reject the Epistle of Jude, Hebrews, Revelation, and James.

Which Bible to you “just stick to”? The 66-book version? If so, who told you that version was the Bible? Are you aware that before the sixteenth century, NOBODY said there was only 66 books in the Bible? Do you know that the majority of Christians even today reject the notion that the Bible only consists of 66 books?

If you insist upon a 66-book Bible, you are not “just sticking to the Bible” but are insisting upon a protestant “tradition of men” that there are only 66 books in the Bible.


#18

posted by rwoehmke

Try Galations 5:19 etc… They’re not called the seven deadly sins, but they are all there. It is not unusual that some things in scripture get called something else and can’t be found under the alternative name. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

For example, the Trinity. The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but the concept is certainly there.

posted by biz
Why can’t we just concentrate on the Bible?

How do we know that the things they come up with are valid?

Concentrate on the Bible? How about concentrate on Christ. Any rules that Catholic religious leaders have made are made with the intent to draw us closer to Christ. People can certainly “follow the rules” and never let anything reach their heart, but the intent of the rules is to draw people closer to our Lord and Savoir, Jesus Christ.

We know they are valid, because in :bible1: Mt 16:18 Jesus Himself gave the power to bind and loose to the Apostles. Bind and loose, when put in context of the times, means to make and change the rules. So it all comes back to Christ. Because we have faith in Christ and in His words, we can trust that the rules the church comes up with are valid.

You appear to have place the Bible above the authority of Christ’s living breathing Church that He left us to guide us. Christ’s Church should be looked to for the interpretation of the Bible. In fact, although as Catholics we talk alot about Tradition, the fact is that every Tradition is at least mentioned in some way in the Bible. Including the Assumption of Mary, the Trinity, Purgatory, and all the “hot button” issues Protestants have with Catholic Christians.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria


#19

God didn’t send a book, he sent a person, his only Son, Jesus Christ, who is the perfect complete divine revelation, the Word made flesh. The Catholic Church concentrates on the person of Jesus Christ who is present, body, blood, soul and divinity here on earth for our benefit in the Paschal Mystery celebreted continuously on Catholic altars around the world.


#20

[quote=biz]Why can’t we just stick to the Bible?

[/quote]

The early Christians, in the days of St. Polycarp and St. Irenaeus did not have the “Bible” which we now have, so do you believe they just stuck to a single “written” book?

Does the bible tell us that it “must” have only 66 rather than 72 books? How come 66 and not 80 or 100 were included?

Gerry :slight_smile:


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