Can protestants get forgiveness/reconciliation?


#1

The thread on ‘How does a Protestant repent after Baptism & being saved’ got me thinking…

Do protestants actually get forgiveness without confession, or a perfect act of contrition (which I think would be very very difficult)?

Does the protestant view of ‘repentance’ actually work…?

Or is Baptism the only chance they have for forgiveness of sins?


#2

[quote=Isidore_AK]The thread on ‘How does a Protestant repent after Baptism & being saved’ got me thinking…

Do protestants actually get forgiveness without confession, or a perfect act of contrition (which I think would be very very difficult)?

Does the protestant view of ‘repentance’ actually work…?

Or is Baptism the only chance they have for forgiveness of sins?

[/quote]

Read 1 John 1:9


#3

Hi Isidore,

Any person having committed a serious sin can be forgiven by a perfect act of contrition. However, a perfect act of contrition, which implies complete detachment from sin and contrition that is based wholly on the love of God, is dififcult to achieve… and we never know whether we have achieved it or not.

That is why God has given us the sacrament of Reconciliation, thorugh which we have the ASSURANCE that we are forgiven. Protestants do not have it. That is a very good reason to become a Catholic.

However, we should avoid passing judgment on the salvation of any individual Protestant. Whereas God is in a way obliged by the sacraments, He is still free to save whomever he wants by any means he wants.

Verbum


#4

ACTS 10:43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

ACTS 13:38 “Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,”

ACTS 26:18 “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in
Me
.’”

COL 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

When an unbeliever truns from unbelief to *belief *in Jesus Christ he receives forgiveness of ALL his sins. Forgeiveness of one’s sins is based on Sacrifice, not sacraments, redemption not rhetoric. It is through Christ, and Christ alone, the “Sin-bearer,” that ANYONE ever receives forgiveness of their sins.

Forgiveness of sins has nothing to do with being Protestant or Catholic. If a Protestant has not put his personal faith in Christ Jesus and what He accomplished FOR HIM on the cross, then he has not received forgiveness of sins. If a Catholic trusts in sacraments, rather than the cross of Christ only, then he has not received forgiveness of sins.

Please read John 3:14-18.

There is no other Biblical message.


#5

[quote=Ozzie]ACTS 10:43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

ACTS 13:38 “Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,”

ACTS 26:18 “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in
Me.’”

COL 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

When an unbeliever truns from unbelief to *belief *in Jesus Christ he receives forgiveness of ALL his sins. Forgeiveness of one’s sins is based on Sacrifice, not sacraments, redemption not rhetoric. It is through Christ, and Christ alone, the “Sin-bearer,” that ANYONE ever receives forgiveness of their sins.

Forgiveness of sins has nothing to do with being Protestant or Catholic. If a Protestant has not put his personal faith in Christ Jesus and what He accomplished FOR HIM on the cross, then he has not received forgiveness of sins. If a Catholic trusts in sacraments, rather than the cross of Christ only, then he has not received forgiveness of sins.

Please read John 3:14-18.

There is no other Biblical message.
[/quote]

I would totally go along with you Ozzie if you could show me that what you believe is not a 16th century innovation. If not, then you are just asking us to accept “tradtions of men” which our Lord prohibits.

Peace


#6

If we just need to believe then when Jesus come to the discliples after his resurrection in John 20:21-23 what was the purpose?“Jesus said to them again ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.’ And when he had said this he breathed on them and said to them, 'recieve the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”


#7

Wait maybe the real question I’d like to ask is can one not trust in the cross but then trust in sacraments? Aren’t the sacraments dependent on the cross?


#8

[quote=Isidore_AK]The thread on ‘How does a Protestant repent after Baptism & being saved’ got me thinking…

Do protestants actually get forgiveness without confession, or a perfect act of contrition (which I think would be very very difficult)?

Does the protestant view of ‘repentance’ actually work…?

Or is Baptism the only chance they have for forgiveness of sins?

[/quote]

**Yes…Protestants who are sincerely contrite, and who have a firm intention to “sin no more” are forgiven. **


**The thing is…We have to leave these things up to God…He judges and decides, not us. **


**The sacrament of Reconciliation does give us the assurance of forgiveness, because we hear the words of absolution, and have the words spoken in John 23 to guide us. However, I just cannot believe that God would withold forgiveness from someone just because he or she does not participate in the sacrament. **


#9

[quote=jman507]Wait maybe the real question I’d like to ask is can one not trust in the cross but then trust in sacraments? Aren’t the sacraments dependent on the cross?
[/quote]

Go to the head of the class.


#10

Ozzie,

None of your scriptural quotations in any way nullifies the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Jesus is the source of all grace and all forgiveness. He has graciously entrusted the charism of his grace to his Sacred Body, the Church, and in this case to the ministry of his priests. How can a Bible Christian deny John 20:21-23?


#11

[quote=Catholic Heart]**Yes…Protestants who are sincerely contrite, and who have a firm intention to “sin no more” are forgiven. **

**The thing is…We have to leave these things up to God…He judges and decides, not us. **

**The sacrament of Reconciliation does give us the assurance of forgiveness, because we hear the words of absolution, and have the words spoken in John 23 to guide us. However, I just cannot believe that God would withold forgiveness from someone just because he or she does not participate in the sacrament. **
[/quote]

What is not accomplished on earth must be accomplished in purgatory.


#12

[quote=Beaver]What is not accomplished on earth must be accomplished in purgatory.
[/quote]

Indeed, but in dialogue with Protestants we must make it pointedly clear that Christ alone accomplishes our salvation through the blood of his cross. Purgatory isn’t an afterthought to compensate for the insufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice, because his sacrifice is sufficient, nor is Purgatory a second chance for people to accept Christ. And Purgatory does not confer forgiveness; it makes us fit to enter the City.


#13

This is one of the things that greatly concerns my Wife. She is a convert to the faith, and all of her family are fundamentalists.

If a protestant is in a state of mortal sin, and is not capable of making a perfect act of conritition, what hope do they have?

They have rejected the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and I can find no other way (beyond ‘perfect’ contrition, which I believe would be imposible for most) to have their mortal sins forgiven…perhaps this is why they believe in adult baptism only? So they can sin as they please while they are young…?

I have searched the catechism, and while it does say that non-Catholics can achieve salvation…it doesn’t say anything about how they may attain forgiveness (besides baptism). So unless we believe that only Catholics are held to a higher standard of repentance & reconciliation, it would be near impossible for most protestants to get to heaven.

I would prefer to hear catholic arguments for or against this if possible…

I am not saying that protestants cannot get to heaven, only that they may not have a way of gaining forgiveness for mortal sins…therefore they would have to live a ‘perfect’ Christian life after baptism…


#14

This is one of the things that greatly concerns my Wife. She is a convert to the faith, and all of her family are fundamentalists.

If a protestant is in a state of mortal sin, and is not capable of making a perfect act of conritition, what hope do they have?

They have rejected the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and I can find no other way (beyond ‘perfect’ contrition, which I believe would be imposible for most) to have their mortal sins forgiven…perhaps this is why they believe in adult baptism only? So they can sin as they please while they are young…?

I have searched the catechism, and while it does say that non-Catholics can achieve salvation…it doesn’t say anything about how they may attain forgiveness (besides baptism). So unless we believe that only Catholics are held to a higher standard of repentance & reconciliation, it would be near impossible for most protestants to get to heaven.

I would prefer to hear catholic arguments for or against this if possible…

I am not saying that protestants cannot get to heaven, only that they may not have a way of gaining forgiveness for mortal sins…therefore they would have to live a ‘perfect’ Christian life after baptism…


#15

[quote=mercygate]Indeed, but in dialogue with Protestants we must make it pointedly clear that Christ alone accomplishes our salvation through the blood of his cross. Purgatory isn’t an afterthought to compensate for the insufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice, because his sacrifice is sufficient, nor is Purgatory a second chance for people to accept Christ. And Purgatory does not confer forgiveness; it makes us fit to enter the City.
[/quote]

I agree


#16

I’ve got a coupla questions along these lines.

  1. When a Catholic asks for forgiveness from sin, do they have assurance that they are forgiven, or do they just hope they are?
  2. Exactly what is a perfect act of contrition?

I have more but I’m holding on to the them for right now.


#17

[quote=Curious]I’ve got a coupla questions along these lines.

  1. When a Catholic asks for forgiveness from sin, do they have assurance that they are forgiven, or do they just hope they are?
  2. Exactly what is a perfect act of contrition?

I have more but I’m holding on to the them for right now.
[/quote]

Here’s some answers for ya,

  1. Yes, a Catholic does have assurance of forgiveness if they use the Sacrament of Confession…and truly mean to confess their sins. Confession is not valid if the person has the intent to continue to commit the sin (at that point you are just lying to God).

  2. The act of contrition is a prayer said at the end of confession,
    it usually goes like this:

O My God,
I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins, because because of Thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, My God, Who art all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy Grace,
to sin no more and to avoid the near occassions of sin.
Amen.

A ‘Perfect Act of Contrition’ is this prayer (or similar) that is prayed with perfect sorrow and intent. To gain God’s forgiveness you must be sorrowfull for all of your mortal sins. To keep even one sin in your heart is to keep them all for punishment.

This means if you are sorry for all your sins…but still think that commiting adultery was fun (even though you would not do it again) you have no forgiveness as you are NOT truly sorry for your sins. You must also attempt to make reparation for those sins that have hurt others. If you have stolen, you must pay. If you have been uncharitable, do your best to make amends. If nothing else, do good works for charity. If a Catholic, you are still obligated to go to confession as soon as possible.

So you see, an Act of Perfect Contrition is very hard to make. It is VERY hard to be truly sorrowful for all of your mortal sins.

Hence my Wifes concern for her family. There are some that have lived imperfect lives since Baptism and she fears for their souls as they speak of their ‘party years’ as fond memories…


#18

[quote=mercygate]None of your scriptural quotations in any way nullifies the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Jesus is the source of all grace and all forgiveness. He has graciously entrusted the charism of his grace to his Sacred Body, the Church, and in this case to the ministry of his priests. How can a Bible Christian deny John 20:21-23?
[/quote]

First of all Jn. 20:21-23 says nothing about “priests,” or sacraments. Christ is speaking directly to His Apostles. You cannot just lift Jn. 20:21-23 out of the context of all N.T. revelation regarding sin and forgiveness. It is VERY clear in the N. T. Scriptures that the basis of forgiveness is the substitutionary sacrifice of God the Son through personal faith in Him. Jesus is not giving His Apostles the “power” to forgive sins in this passage, and certainly not the power to refuse forgiveness of sins. Jesus here commits to the Apostles the right, authoritatively, to declare, in His name, that there is forgiveness of sins, and by what conditions the sins will be forgiven.

This is clearly demonstrated by Peter himself when he first preached the Person and work of Jesus Christ to Gentiles:

ACTS 10:43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Peter is not personally forgiving sins, but declares the condition by which sins are forgiven: “everyone who BELIEVERS in Him RECEIVES forgiveness of sins.”

Paul demonstrates the same in his sermon to the Jews at Pisidian Antioch:

ACTS 13:38 “Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified through the Law of Moses.”

He again declares the same thing before king Agrippa in Acts 26:18.
Can you show me even one place in the N.T. where anyone ever came to the Apostles FOR the forgiveness of their sins? Where the Apostles themselves ever demonstrated or claimed to have the power to personally absolve sins? Your interpretation of Jn. 20:21-23 is totally erroneous and goes against the whole grain of N.T. revelation concerning Christ and the forgiveness of sins through personal faith in Him.


#19

Hi Catholic H.,

[size=4]However, I just cannot believe that God would withold forgiveness from someone just because he or she does not participate in the sacrament. [/size]

Either you believe that confession is necessary or you don’t. Why would Protestants have it easier than us?

However, as I have said in my last post, granted that God is bound by the sacraments, he is not LIMITED to them. But we don’t KNOW what he will do in a particular case.

Verbum


#20

[quote=Ozzie]First of all Jn. 20:21-23 says nothing about “priests,” or sacraments. Christ is speaking directly to His Apostles. You cannot just lift Jn. 20:21-23 out of the context of all N.T. revelation regarding sin and forgiveness. It is VERY clear in the N. T. Scriptures that the basis of forgiveness is the substitutionary sacrifice of God the Son through personal faith in Him. Jesus is not giving His Apostles the “power” to forgive sins in this passage, and certainly not the power to refuse forgiveness of sins. Jesus here commits to the Apostles the right, authoritatively, to declare, in His name, that there is forgiveness of sins, and by what conditions the sins will be forgiven.

This is clearly demonstrated by Peter himself when he first preached the Person and work of Jesus Christ to Gentiles:

ACTS 10:43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Peter is not personally forgiving sins, but declares the condition by which sins are forgiven: “everyone who BELIEVERS in Him RECEIVES forgiveness of sins.”

Paul demonstrates the same in his sermon to the Jews at Pisidian Antioch:

ACTS 13:38 “Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified through the Law of Moses.”

He again declares the same thing before king Agrippa in Acts 26:18.
Can you show me even one place in the N.T. where anyone ever came to the Apostles FOR the forgiveness of their sins? Where the Apostles themselves ever demonstrated or claimed to have the power to personally absolve sins? Your interpretation of Jn. 20:21-23 is totally erroneous and goes against the whole grain of N.T. revelation concerning Christ and the forgiveness of sins through personal faith in Him.
[/quote]

I would totally go along with you Ozzie if you could show me that what you believe is not a 16th century innovation. If not, then you are just asking us to accept “tradtions of men” which our Lord prohibits.

Peace


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