can satan perform miracles like preserving bodies.
how do you know satan didnt preserve the bodies of the some of the dead saints.
can satan perform miracles like preserving bodies.
how do you know satan didnt preserve the bodies of the some of the dead saints.
Satan cannot preform miracles. Satan can do “things which rouse man’s astonishment,” and those things can even be real.
St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa Theologica, Question 110 and 114. The assaults of the demons:[Question 110, Article 4. Whether angels can work miracles?]
I answer that, A miracle properly so called is when something is done outside the order of nature. But it is not enough for a miracle if something is done outside the order of any particular nature; for otherwise anyone would perform a miracle by throwing a stone upwards, as such a thing is outside the order of the stone’s nature. So for a miracle is required that it be against the order of the whole created nature. But God alone can do this, because, whatever an angel or any other creature does by its own power, is according to the order of created nature; and thus it is not a miracle. Hence God alone can work miracles.
[Question 114, Article 4. Whether demons can lead men astray by means of real miracles?]
I answer that, As is clear from what has been said above (Question 110, Article 4), if we take a miracle in the strict sense, the demons cannot work miracles, nor can any creature, but God alone: since in the strict sense a miracle is something done outside the order of the entire created nature, under which order every power of a creature is contained. But sometimes miracle may be taken in a wide sense, for whatever exceeds the human power and experience. And thus demons can work miracles, that is, things which rouse man’s astonishment, by reason of their being beyond his power and outside his sphere of knowledge. For even a man by doing what is beyond the power and knowledge of another, leads him to marvel at what he has done, so that in a way he seems to that man to have worked a miracle.
It is to be noted, however, that although these works of demons which appear marvelous to us are not real miracles, they are sometimes nevertheless something real. Thus the magicians of Pharaoh by the demons’ power produced real serpents and frogs. And “when fire came down from heaven and at one blow consumed Job’s servants and sheep; when the storm struck down his house and with it his children–these were the work of Satan, not phantoms”; as Augustine says (De Civ. Dei xx, 19).
A miracle is by definition something supernatural and from God.
However the devil and other Angels can do preternatural acts that appear like miracles. They can even heal illnesses or give stigmata. I read that either from Father Gabriele Amorth or Father Jose Antonio Fortea, both exorcists and demonologists.
About discerning which is the real source.
“By their fruits you will know them.” If a preternatural act from something evil occurs, only evil will result. For example, it would make a psychic more famous or have a cult leader gain more followers.
If it fosters real devotion to God and holiness, it is a sign of a real Divine miracle. That’s one of the ways they figure out when an apparition of Christ or Mary is authentic.
The devil can also appear as of he’s Christ. The devil did that to Saint Teresa of Avila at the end of her life. She knew it wasn’t real because the figure didn’t have any wounds.
So, one might say, a demonic supernatural act would serve to help Earthly, human, or demonic interests, whereas a divine miracle would serve the interests of God?
Sounds fair enough.
But if the OP means “can Satan do supernatural things?”, the answer is, yes.
I have my doubts that Satan can truly “heal” anybody or anything.
Well again, supernatural pertains specifically and solely to the Divine.
Demonic things strictly speaking are preternatural.
so the incorrupt bodies of people must be of god, and satan cant perform miracles, he can perform things that LOOK like miracles from god
so not physically proof miracles
Good afternoon Jacob94:
I have thought of your question before but NOT based on whether Satan could have done it.Interestingly, I believe there are cases of others being “incorrupt”; maybe not even necessarily persons who were considered holy.
Anyway, the data is out there.
On a related note, Hsuan Hua, a Venerable Buddhist Master who indeed started the City of 10,000 Buddhas in Northern California was cremated. Their disciples say the fact that his cremation left a “patina” on remains proves some sort of Holiness.
These remains seem to be called the “Master’s Sharira” (sharira means something like corn kernel so it is applied to these it appears). When these remains have a jade-like or opaque appearance, it just makes me think a bit.
See bottom of the page: cttbusa.org/parinirvana/parinirvana.htm
In general, when these things happen, I think whomever it happened to may have struck favor with God.
When the Pharisees accused Jesus of being in league with satan in order to perform His miracles, (Luke 17) He corrected them, saying a house divided against itself cannot stand…This makes me think the devil can NOT do anything that could give any praise or glory to God, such as true healings, asking for prayers, or preserving saints’s mortal remains.
The Bible says satan can “appear” as an angel of light. I take this to mean he can do things or take the form of things that “appear” good, but they are false or bad in the end – a good reason why the Church takes so long to proclaim the veracity of apparitions and waits for them to end before ruling on them.
There is so much satanic activity in the world. One of Fr. Amorth’s (the exorcist) books said he asked the demons in a victim (compelling them through the power of Christ to answer him so they couldn’t lie), how many were there (demons) and he was told “so many we would blot out the sun.”
Thankfully, they are limited by God in what they can do.
Satan cannot perform miracles as God is needed for this but he can perform wonders that would make people think they are miracles.
No they are still physical cures or acts. Again, like with curing a disease. The disease would be really gone. Incidentally theologians are also called upon to determine if something is an actual miracle and not demonic.
I think the flaw here is how people understand what a miracle is. A miracle is not just what is not naturally explainable, because preternatural demonic acts can qualify as the same. A miracle is something that’s Divine and supernatural. Demons can cause illness and can cure them, cording to Fathers Amorth and Fortea.
As for incorrupt saints, the proof that it is a real miracle is that it fosters devotion to the saint and gives adoration and glory to God. It also reminds us of the Last Day.
An interesting tidbit, in exorcisms, demons are terrified of relics of saints, and relics play a big part in the ritual.
Why would he? Why are you bringing this up on Christmas Day? Can’t we focus on the birth of Jesus instead and not have some discussion about the devil? The bodies of saints that have been found incorruptable is a sign of their sanctity not a sign of demonic activity. Why would the devil want to preserve bodies of saints? It make no sense at all. It is like the devil casting out the devil which is what Jesus was accused of. Merry Christmas and lets focus on baby Jesus and not the diabolical.
I would not say Satan or any demon is a “natural” being. Nature consists of the universe, bound in time and space. No spiritual being is bound by time or space - including souls, angels, demons, and of course God. Therefore, it would be correct to say an act of Satan is supernatural - it’s just evil as all get out.
Common usage of natural differs from that of the Catholic Church.
Modern Catholic Dictionary has for pretenatural:
That which is beyond the natural but is not strictly supernatural. It is preternatural either because natural forces are used by God to produce effects beyond their native capacity, or because above-human forces, angelic or demonic, are active in the world of space and time. (Etym. Latin praeter, beyond + natural, nature.)
OOOoook, thank you for clarifying.
In Short yes Demons are angels in a fallen State which is permanent they can not obtain salvation.
So Demons are angels they have the same extraordinary abilities all angels possess however they use these abilities for Evil or to defile God’s plan and order of things especially Human kind.
Depends on your definition of Miracles.
A Miracle in it’s truest sense that is ordained by God and brings those to Faith…No.
Something out of the Ordinary or PARA-Normal or SUPER-Natural certainly and humans will perceive these as Miracles leading them away from God when they think they are being brought towards God or the truth.
Some Protestant Sects think that the Marian apparitions are not of God.
There are even those within the Church that think some of them obviously are not from God and have been deemed as so such as Our Lady of divine Mercy.
No all Apparitions are approved to be “Worthy” Of Faith (Not Required as Private Revelations are not a part of The Deposits Of Faith).
Our Lady of Medjugorje is one many in the Church believe is demonic and it’s looking like you will probably not see this one approved or at least to my understanding.
I would say even some of the Bleeding Statues are of demonic nature.
You don’t hear about that much anymore that seemed to be something that went on in the 90’s.
I’m not really into Apparitions I honor Mary in the More Classical sense.
One of the problems I see with what the Church deems as “Miracles” is that some individuals not all I am not making an absolute statement here but some individuals hyper focus on private revelations.
Since most of the popular Private revelations are Marian apparitions those are the ones I observe individuals particularly on the internet community to be very fanatical about .
What is sad is that these individuals hyper focus on the Private Revelation and they hyper focus on Mary and not in the Dulia or Hyperdulia sense either it comes off flat out as latria in the form of Marioltary.
Not once other in passing do these Internet Catholic street preachers ever mention Jesus or the Gospels really very much or at all.
They go on places like youtube and yahoo answers and other internet portals and “try”
to evangelize Protestants with Mary and Marian Apparitions and Catholic Culture and Private Prophecies.
They say they don’t Worship Mary but that’s all they talk about and what is further sad about these individuals is that the energy and effort and zeal that they put into there evangelization could have been and could be directed at spreading the Gospels and inviting others into the faith.
So with some of these Miracles or Private revelations I see that you have something really moving and amazing which should lead many to God or back to God and instead these privation revelations are hyper focused on themselves which if they are in fact from God I do not believe is there purpose.
I believe these are the types of stories and miracles that should Inspire us to God or back to God or to do more in our faith and spread the Gospels as we are commanded to do.
Out of all the Private revelations I see the most abused is Fatima.
As Christ says we should not seek out Miracles and signs and really and truly we have all the more we will ever need in the Bible.
what do you guys think of these near death experiences that are so vivid, and then you see some where they just see a light.
whos behind which one?
I think some are legitimate I’m not sure all of them are.
Heaven is for real is pretty convincing
Recommended reading, an excerpt from exorcist Father Jose Antonio Fortea
“The supernatural concerns things or events beyond or above (Latin super) any created nature; it is proper only to God Himself.”
“Demons can engage in preternatural activities…”
Good question! I have a friend who’s obsessed with the near-death experience (NDE) of anyone who says they experienced one and wrote a book about it. So now she has a mish mash belief system where anything goes: past lives, aborted fetuses telling their “mom” they forgive them, etc etc…
Just my opinion, but when I hear about an NDE’r reporting back how “God” told them there is no sin, we should just do as we wish, we won’t be judged, etc. (the “I’m Okay, You’re Okay” religion), as a Catholic, I believe that person is either lying and/or cashing in, or they are being demonically influenced.
Then some lovely NDE’s are very similar: you see a review of your life, the tunnel of light, you see your deceased loved ones, there’s a “Being of pure unconditional love” …some see Jesus, or communicate with the Being and get “sent back”. My mom had this- she absolutely did NOT want to come back because it was so very peaceful and she was completely happy; the Light told her she will come back later… my mom has been looking forward to it for nearly 50 years. I believe her completely, but who can truly judge who’s behind it…sounds like it’s from God, but for some, such an experience may be a temptation not to use one’s talents, or to ignore one’s responsibilities in life, because they know this life is short. Can that be of God? I can see it both ways. Others have complete conversions, sometimes only because they had an awful completely hellish NDE. Is that of God?
I believe sometimes yes, sometimes no and sometimes it’s invented by the NDE’r. Why God allows this, I can’t say. I imagine we have “itchy ears” – it’s the REAL and final death experience we should be concerned about.