Can someone explain the Totality of Christs' presence in the Eucharist?


#1

I was wondering if someone could explain it laymans terms. newadvent.org does by using the Council of Trent’s explanation but I’m not real sure I understand.This is the link for newadvent.org’s explanation newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
If someone could interpret that into English for me I would appreciate it! :confused: :smiley:

This quote was taken from wikipedia (i know, its just wikipedia but it is a decent question) :

“Critics[citation needed] draw a distinction between the irreducible risen physical Jesus, and the reducible elements of his body. They point as an example to the third day after the Crucifixion. Although Christ’s Precious Blood still drenched the cross and the tomb clothes[citation needed], the angel states: “He is not here, for He has risen…” Gospel of Matthew 28:6. Similarly the Eucharistic Blood and Body are elements proceeding from Christ, not the irreducible Person Himself.[citation needed] Roman Catholics draw much the same distinction between the irreducible personhood of a man, and the parts of his body. Destruction of a body part (e.g., amputation) is not destruction of the person himself. Similarly, blood used in a blood transfusion derives from its donor, but is not the donor himself. The Catholic Church, however, asserts that the Eucharist contains the fullness of Christ’s body, blood, and divinity, not just the proceeding elements from Christ”

Hopefully someone can help me out on this because I am sure I will need to use whatever answer I get at some point in time…Thanks guys and God bless!!!

        David

#2

David,

The answer can be found in Catechism.

1374 The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially ontained."202 "This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203

The reference from the Catechism cite the following:

201 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh III,73,3c.
202 Council of Trent (1551): DS 1651.
203 Paul VI, MF 39.

Now you may ask how this happens. John Damascene explains how this is possible.

You ask how the bread becomes the Body of Christ and the wine…the Blood of Christ. I shall tell you: The Holy Spirit comes upon them and accomplishes what surpasses every word and thought…Let it be enough for you to understand that it is by the Holy Spirit, just as it was of the Holy Virgin and by the Holy Spirit that the Lord, through and in himself, took flesh." - St John Damascene.

This quote is also cited in Catechism of the Catholic Church # 1106.

You could also read John Chapter 6 and 1 Corinthians Chapter 11.


#3

I’m familiar with the sources that you have listed, but this isn’t a question of whether or not it is Jesus’ Body and Blood, it’s the question that has been asked about why is it “Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity”?. It’s the “Soul and Divinity” part that is under question. Why is it Soul and Divinity? How did the Church come to that conclusion? To be honest with you, if someone asked me that question, I wouldn’t know how to answer it. I think it is a good question that someone thinking about coming into the Church or someone that wants to tell me how Catholics are wrong might ask or want to know. Thanks and God bless!

    David

#4

The Eucharist does have soul because Jesus incarnated as man. A man has a soul. He has a soul, he has a body also. He is also divine meaning he is God. That is why Eucharist is the the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

What we are dealing here is Jesus Christ. Jesus is like us, except he has no sin. We have a soul, and he has a soul. It is a mystery. We aren’t required to understand it, when we don’t understand it, we have to accept it as Truth and have faith in the One who gave us this truth. You know what the Truth is right?


#5

It must be Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity because Jesus is alive. If His Soul and Divinity are not present in the Eucharist, then it is dead flesh, and Jesus is not alive. But He is Risen! Alleluia!! and so, His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity will never again be separated.


#6

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to push this topic as far as I have. Yes I do understand what is the Truth and that it is the Truth. The Holy Eucharist is Jesus and when you are in the presence of the Eucharist you are standing right there with Jesus Himself: Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. I accept completely what the Church teaches down to the minute detail. This question though is not really for me (other than the ability to explain it! :slight_smile: ), it’s for those that might ask me about it, and I want to be able to respond in VERY understandable terms what that statement means. I know I’ve probably aggravated you to death about this and I’m sorry!!! :wink: The passage in St John’s Gospel does make it somewhat understandable to a person of “non” or other faiths, I was just hoping you might elaborate more on it in very simple terms…I really do appreciate the effort…God Bless!!!


#7

Jesus is the Bread of Life. That is that simple. You have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Jesus is a man, he has a Soul, He is Divine, He has a Body, and He has a Blood. That is as simple as I can get it. If you don’t see it then I think you are making this too hard on yourself. You have to know WHO Jesus Christ is. Once you figure that one out. You know that the Eucharist after the Consecration of Bread and Wine is in fact the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ.


#8

I think you hit the nail on the head!!! :smiley: A little background on the reason I was wanting this explained in the depth that it has been is because I grew up Baptist and my Dad is a preacher. I know that some point in my life this will come up. He really seems to enjoy trying to refute the Catholic Church. I just want to be able to knock that question down quickly. So far I haven’t had any trouble with anything until I was reading the other day about Adoration and came across the statement in my original post. I always like to ask questions because the answers I get always make my faith stronger. Thanks for all your help!!!

       David

#9

You may find this Web page helpful:

therealpresence.org/eucharst/realpres/a12.html


#10

Actually the bible teaches that the holy spirit will be placed IN us. Catholics will teach you that it’s just a miracle beyond understanding and that’s probably all the explanation you will get. “God does it”. Yet, the bible teaches differently. Please go listen to your dad.
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you[/FONT]


#11

Let me put it simply from Jesus own lips.

The Jews knew that He was speaking literally. Jn 6:52 “How can this man give us his Flesh to eat?” On other occasions when our Lord spoke of Himself as a Jn 10:9 “door” or a Jn 15:1 “vine,” nobody said, “How can this man be made of wood?” or “How can this man be a plant?” They recognized these as metaphors. But when Jesus insisted, Jn 6:53 “Unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of man and drink His Blood, you have no life in you; he who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has eternal life.” The Jews who heard this said, Jn 6:60 “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” They remembered God’s command to Noah and all mankind, Gn 9:4 “Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.” God spoke more forcefully to His chosen people. Lv 17:10 “I will set my face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people.” It was only after Christ’s redemptive sacrifice and the Holy Spirit’s enlightenment that the Apostles saw the full meaning of our Father’s next words. Lv 17:11 “For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life.” In the Old Covenant our Father in heaven had commanded His children not to eat the blood of animals because we are not to participate in the life of animals. Animals, having no immortal souls, are lower than man in the order of created nature. However, in the New and Everlasting Covenant we consume the Blood of Christ to participate in Christ’s eternal life.


#12

it’s the question that has been asked about why is it “Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity”?. It’s the “Soul and Divinity” part that is under question. Why is it Soul and Divinity? How did the Church come to that conclusion?

Sounds to me like it’s just another way of saying it’s the ENTIRE Christ that we encounter in the Holy Eucharist–both His human and divine natures.


#13

The Eucharist is Jesus Christ period, whole and entire.


#14

If it’s Jesus as a whole… who is seated at the right hand of the Father? And how many little pieces of wholeness are there?


#15

Jesus. Don’t you believe He can be in more than one place at a time?

And how many little pieces of wholeness are there?

Not pieces, the whole Jesus. How is this possible? He is God.


#16

Jesus. Don’t you believe He can be in more than one place at a time?

His spirit yes… absolutely. But we are talking about His body here, His flesh and blood. How can the body be in more than one place at one time?


#17

Why not His body too? Is God that limited?


#18

But remember that Jesus was fully God and fully man… you are also a man, can you divide your body up into little parts?


#19

No. But I am not God. What’s your point?


#20

I think you know his point accepting this means denying the doctrine of incarnation


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.