Can someone explain to me the differences between traditional and Vatican II Catholics?


#1

I am thinking about becoming Catholic and am interested to learn about it’s history.

What are Traditional Catholics? What traditions are you upholding and how do many of you differ from other Catholics?

Do you guys believe there is no salvation outside of Christ, also no salvation outside of the Church?

The reason I ask is there were some things I didn’t understand that have kept me from fully converting. I come from a Protestant background and salvation at least has to be through Christ but there is some stuff I’ve read on Catholic Answers that suggest that non-believers can go to heaven. Is this an example of those disagreements?


#2

“Traditional Catholics” are Catholics who prefer the old way of doing things, before the Second Vatican Council (“VII” or “Vatican II”). It’s just a preference thing. (But some “traditional Catholics” do take it way too far and claim the newer way is somehow heretical or invalid, which it isn’t.) Basically, after the Second Vatican Council, the form changed a bit.

There is no salvation outside of Christ, and there is no salvation outside the Church. All Catholics must believe this. However, there is disagreement on what this means. Some Catholics interpret it to mean that only Catholics may be saved. Some Catholics interpret it to mean that non-Catholics may be saved, but if they are, it is only through the Catholic Church. (In other words, they’re saved by Christ through the Catholic Church even if they don’t know it.) I’m not sure which camp I fall into. I haven’t looked into it enough. Ultimately, we all believe that judgment is up to God, and we won’t know who is in Heaven or who isn’t until the Final/General Judgment.

I am also from a Protestant background! :slight_smile:


#3

There is just a misunderstanding because of the way it’s written. To understand the concept better it may help to think of it as - there is only salvation because of what Christ did.


#4

I guess I am just having a hard time with this because all of my favorite Church fathers were Catholic from Aquinas to Augustine.

By no salvation outside of Christ, you guys do mean in a similar vein to the Protestants, that Christ is the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Him?

So, Islam is not the path to salvation? A Muslim, no matter how faithful to his religion and good, cannot enter heaven through his religion?

I understand that God can save whoever He wants, but salvation is still through Him. I am wondering if Traditional Catholics believe that a person can get to heaven based on his or her being a good person alone.
As in what the Protestants like to say about Catholics, that Catholics believe you just have to be a good person to be saved.


#5

No, being good alone is not sufficient. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. However, it could be that this Muslim has never heard of Christ, or that the only things this Muslim person has heard about Christ are outright lies. This Muslim person lives his or her life as well as he or she can in accordance with Islam and dies never knowing Christ. We don’t believe that this Muslim person is necessarily condemned due to his/her ignorance that wasn’t his/her fault.


#7

brought the popcorn and the thread shut down timer


#8

but let me ask you this, forget outside influences and opinions. what is driving you to convert? what is in your heart?


#9

Well that is what the Scriptures say, isn’t it? John 14:6 if I remember correctly.

Correct. But that doesn’t mean the Muslim can’t get to Heaven. It means that if that Muslim gets to Heaven, it was because of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice. Not through his own religion, but by Christ.

No Catholics may believe that we are saved apart from Christ. It is only because of Christ that our good deeds can gain any merit to begin with. Apart from Christ, our good works are filthy rags.

A lot of traditional Catholics I’ve spoken to online hold the opinion that only Catholics may be saved. But that might just be personal experience.


#13

If you continue, you will get this whole thread shut down. And for what? I’m really tired of threads being shut down due to one problematic poster, even when the OP is a good one. Please chill out.


#15

this is what Jesus taught us. God gives us to Jesus. We must accept Jesus to go on the path of salvation. So Jesus strives not to lose a single soul, given Him by God the Father.
We must help Jesus and live a good life, and try to stay in a state of Grace.

and if we fall into mortal sin, go to confession and seek absolution and be truly sorry for offending God.

We can do nothing on our own. So it makes no difference how many good deeds are done. It is God who saves us. We cannot save ourselves.

the only way to the Father is through the Son


#16

Yes we certainly can!! :grinning:


#18

I fully agree. Please stop.


#19

It’s this guy’s fourth account at least. Someone please ban the IP address.


#21

I think you’re not understanding.

Jesus opened heaven up for people to enter. That is what is meant. Anyone, of any religion can enter heaven since Jesus opened it up. Religious affiliation has nothing to do per se with it.

That being said, Jesus initiated a church community which is today called the Catholic Church. Protestant churches are offshoots of the Catholic Church. They have great things to offer, but they are apart, more or less, from the bishops that Christ intended to carry the Church forward through the centuries.


#22

Good luck, IP addresses are rarely permanently assigned for a home connection. This clown can just get another IP. Just ignore him.


#24

Fauken, but are we not all dead in sin and need to be rejuvenated through Christ? How is it a question of being at fault or not? I thought it was a question of grace? I thought that if the person had never heard the Gospel, he would go to hell, because that is the natural state of man. Dead in sin. It is only by God’s grace that the person would find salvation.


#27

I’ve been reading Aquinas and have a love for Augustine. I thought they were devout Catholics, so perhaps the Catholic Church is the way. It’s been weighing on my heart to look into it. That’s all. I want to be in the right Church


#29

Yes we do need Christ. Yes we need His grace. But this corruption is not part of our nature. It’s just that: a corruption. God can use His grace however He likes, and that means He can use it outside His Sacraments. We also know that God is just and merciful. Is it really merciful and fair to be condemned for something you really didn’t know, nor never had the chance to know? Is God confined by His own Gospel? No. We believe He can save them, by His grace, without someone knowing through no fault of their own who He is. Does that make sense?


#31

I can agree with this considering that perhaps God could save anyone that He wants, even someone who hasn’t heard of Him, but I was under the impression that the merciful and fair thing to do was to send His Son down to Earth to die for our sins. Wasn’t that the mercy? That whosoever believes in Him will never die but have everlasting grace?

What do you mean by corruption not being a part of our nature? Are we not by nature the children of wrath? But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—.


#32

I absolutely love St Augustine. He is awesome and his works helped define things like good and evil and sin, for the Church. He was a Bishop and a very smart man, who was quite wild in his youth.

A real person!


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