Can someone please explain this quote to me?


#1

I came accross this quotation and am hoping that someone from the Catholic church can explain it to me, and how the following Bible verse, taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible, relates to it. I’m a bit confused because it seems to me that the 2 quotes contradict one another…

“Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No…because the Bible does not have everything God taught.” (A Catechism for Adults, Q. 1, p. 52).

“And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2 Tim. 2:15)

Blessings in Christ,
Amanda


#2

[quote=amanda_nicole82]I came accross this quotation and am hoping that someone from the Catholic church can explain it to me, and how the following Bible verse, taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible, relates to it. I’m a bit confused because it seems to me that the 2 quotes contradict one another…

“Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No…because the Bible does not have everything God taught.” (A Catechism for Adults, Q. 1, p. 52).

“And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2 Tim. 2:15) (Actually, it’s 2 Tim. 3:15)

[/quote]

The Catechism fragment that you cited here - does it even exist? Is it quoted exactly as written in “A Catechism for Adults?” Is the book an approved Catechism?

I find it quoted on three extremely anti-Catholic pages:
jesuschurchpattern.com/index.php?lesson=68
michaelscotto.com/articles/matatics.html
talkaboutpets.com/group/alt.pets.ferrets/messages/189093.html

From the first link:
No religious institution on earth has as much to fear about its members reading the Bible as the Catholic Church

:rolleyes: It wouldn’t be the first time that an anti-Catholic just made something up or twisted Catholic writing to suit his/her own purposes. And look at all the anti-Catholics who swoon after dissenters and heretics.

The quotation from Timothy refers to holy scriptures, but which ones?

At the time that Timothy was written, the Bible was not yet canonized.

Was he referring to the written instructions he had left or sent to that church? Notes kept from the teachings of the sacraments from the days of the founding of that church? The Old Testament?

The paragraph before the one you cited provides amplifying information:

2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in those things which thou hast learned, and which have been committed to thee: knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


#3

Since it was from Tim’s “infancy,” Paul was talkin about the Old Testament. It can instruct you to salvation, but, for example, Paul had to “open” (dianoigo) the Scriptures to the Bereans before it clicked for them.


#4

Part of the real cryin’ shame of it all is that that passage is a beautiful example of Paul reminding Timothy that he was handed down the OT by oral tradition (since at the time Paul wrote this he was in fact writing the NT and it wasn’t yet handed down as scripture per se, was it now?)

Furthermore, John 21:25 says But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

Now does that tell us that all that Jesus said and did are written in the NT? It patently does not, does it? So clearly the apostles talked much about Our Blessed Lord with those they discipled, and some of it came down to us via oral tradition, or by historical documents that have come down to us that show us what they believed and practiced. Like this from the Early Church Fathers


#5

Amanda, In the passage from II Tim that you quote, Paul is addressing his intimate young protege, Timothy, whom he taught in person. Paul. Himself. Paul drew on Timothy’s early education to amplify the teaching of the Gospel message.

In 2 Thess 2:15 Paul says:

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either **by word of mouth **or by letter.

In other words, teaching is an important part of passing on the Gospel message.

It is also essential to engage the intellect and to exercise reason in theological and moral adjudication. The moral law is written on the human heart even before the Commandments are given. Thus Spirit-guided study of the natural law also imparts essential truths.

Scripture is not a handbook. Though it is a privileged place of revelation, it cannot the exclusive means by which God communicates with men, and it cannot interpret itself.


#6

I’m actually more troubled by 2 Tim 2:15 saying the holy scriptures can instruct thee to salvation, not the holy scriptures alone can lead you to salvation. It doesn’t say only that which is in scripture has authority. It says none of these things.

Just that scriptures can instruct. Which of course Catholics knew many centuries ago.

You should ask your protestant friends for a detailed explanation of this misinterpretation.


#7

[quote=amanda_nicole82]I came accross this quotation and am hoping that someone from the Catholic church can explain it to me, and how the following Bible verse, taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible, relates to it. I’m a bit confused because it seems to me that the 2 quotes contradict one another…

“Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No…because the Bible does not have everything God taught.” (A Catechism for Adults, Q. 1, p. 52).

“And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2 Tim. 2:15)

Blessings in Christ,
Amanda

[/quote]

Hi, Amanda.

*A Catechism for Adults *is essentially correct if you understand the point being made.

Christ set up a salvation plan. It really does entail sacraments. Careful reading of the Bible itself confirms this. Thus, careful reading of the Bible itself contradicts someone who maintains that “you can learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible.” Someone who maintains that “you can learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible” is contradicting the Bible itself!

When Paul wrote what he wrote to Timothy, he was not addressing someone who rejected the sacraments. He was addressing someone who believed 1 Corinthians 11:23-29.


#8

[quote=amanda_nicole82]I came accross this quotation and am hoping that someone from the Catholic church can explain it to me, and how the following Bible verse, taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible, relates to it. I’m a bit confused because it seems to me that the 2 quotes contradict one another…

“Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No…because the Bible does not have everything God taught.” (A Catechism for Adults, Q. 1, p. 52).

“And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2 Tim. 2:15)

Blessings in Christ,
Amanda

[/quote]

Amanda,

The quote from 2 Timothy says that the Holy Scriptures can instruct him (and us) to salvation; it doesn’t say that it can give us the entire instruction. There is no contradiction at all between it and the Catechism quote you cited. (Incidentally, did anybody ever find that Catechism, or is it actually a red herring?)

  • Liberian

#9

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