Can the ingredients for making Communion wafers ever vary by place?


#1

I was wondering if the main flour like ingedient can be from different grains besides wheat like corn,rice,quinoa,oat or barley flour depending on what's more locally available.


#2

[quote="sidetrack, post:1, topic:332043"]
I was wondering if the main flour like ingedient can be from different grains besides wheat like corn,rice,quinoa,oat or barley flour depending on what's more locally available.

[/quote]

Can. 924 §1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.
§2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling.
§3. The wine must be natural from the fruit of the vine and not spoiled.

The answer is "wheat".

(Having said that, they can make a little bit of variance for those who have celiac disease and the like, but it must still be "wheat")


#3

The wafer must be only wheat. The church even ruled that gluten is an integral part of the wheat, and cannot be removed in its entirety.

A group of nuns has a recipe for a wafer that removes all but a trace of the gluten to accommodate those who are sensitive; however those who can’t eat any gluten are allowed to receive from just the chalice.

The same applies to the alcohol in the wine. Freshly pressed grapes may be used for communion for priests who cannot drink alcohol. The resulting “mustum” is then wine that has not yet fully fermented. The laity who cannot drink alcohol must simply refrain from receiving the chalice (hopefully very few have both celiacs disease and alcoholism!).


#4

As you have read, only wheat flour may be used for the host.

What you will see is variations in milling of the flou. Some flour is more thoroughly milled than other flours. So you will see some hosts that are made from finely milled white flour that will dissolve in your mouth. Other hosts are made from less finely milled flour. Those hosts are often more brown in color and may have visible bits of wheat bran. These hosts are often thicker and usually need to be chewed.


#5

There are different wheats that can be planted. It might be possible that different wheat strains grow better in different climates. I keep two types of wheat in my kitchen, one "hard" and one "soft" (one American, one from India), so I know they exist.

But you cannot use rye, barley, oats, corn, teff, etc. Must be wheat.


#6

[quote="SMHW, post:4, topic:332043"]
As you have read, only wheat flour may be used for the host.

What you will see is variations in milling of the flou. Some flour is more thoroughly milled than other flours. So you will see some hosts that are made from finely milled white flour that will dissolve in your mouth. Other hosts are made from less finely milled flour. Those hosts are often more brown in color and may have visible bits of wheat bran. These hosts are often thicker and usually need to be chewed.

[/quote]

Wheat itself has many variants. For one thing, today's wheat is nowhere near what the wheat was in First Century Palestine.


#7

Interesting. What can you say is the difference between those wheat? I’ve never looked at wheat that way, I experiment with different grocery brands for making prosphra and there is one particular local brand that I have selected as the best for making it. Its just that I have nailed the proper ratios and got the dough to a consistency that makes for good bread. I remember a friend saying there are differences between Canadian and American wheat. I’ve never bothered to find out what because I don’t shop for groceries in the US.


#8

It's worth noting that the wheat flour used can be whole wheat (which has the hulls), just the kernel, or even just the heart of the kernel (sans the bran). And the different strains of wheat have different starch, protein, gluten and sugar levels; modern domestic wheat is much higher than wild wheat in gluten, and looser hulled, than Eincorn wheat. Hard wheats are higher in gluten than soft wheat, too.

It is also worth noting that many of the Churches in union with Rome use leavened bread for communion, but even there, only wheat (tho with yeast and sometimes salt) is used.


#9

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:7, topic:332043"]
Interesting. What can you say is the difference between those wheat? I've never looked at wheat that way, I experiment with different grocery brands for making prosphra and there is one particular local brand that I have selected as the best for making it. Its just that I have nailed the proper ratios and got the dough to a consistency that makes for good bread. I remember a friend saying there are differences between Canadian and American wheat. I've never bothered to find out what because I don't shop for groceries in the US.

[/quote]

The thing I notice most between the two is that the Indian whole wheat flour is finer milled, slightly more yellow, and is softer to knead than American Durham wheat. It must have less gluten, but it still has it, so it will be possible to leaven and raise it. Unfortunately, I have not used it for a leavened bread, so I can't tell you precisely how it will behave for your particular needs. I make flat bread and pasta with it. It rolls out beautifully for flat bread and seems to have been partly sifted, so little rough bits don't cut into my pasta, making smoother wheat pasta that American stone ground whole wheat. (For pasta I mix with white flour).

If you want to make a whole wheat leavened bread with Indian whole wheat flour (probably called "chapati flour" or possibly "100 % whole wheat atta"), I'd anticipate needing to alter the amount of water added from my usual recipe and I might consider adding vital wheat gluten if I had it (and if that is allowed for your purpose *). I anticipate it would make a tender, soft to chew, tasty leavened bread, slightly denser than usual. Its flavor is less pronounced than stone ground American wheat. Flavor would increase if leavened by true sourdough and allowed a long ferment, which is the way I'd make a whole wheat leavened bread. If you use dried yeast method to leaven, I'd consider to autolyse the bread for 30 minutes, and only then add the salt, yeast and remainder of flour.

I bet you can get the chapati flour in Canada no problem, since I think one brand comes from there. Isn't bread fun! :thumbsup: (or is it that your friend is in Canada, not you)

*Vital wheat gluten can be gotten by a simple hand process from wheat flour and water and kneading and rinsing. It is just tedious.


#10

[quote="Pug, post:9, topic:332043"]
The thing I notice most between the two is that the Indian whole wheat flour is finer milled, slightly more yellow, and is softer to knead than American Durham wheat. It must have less gluten, but it still has it, so it will be possible to leaven and raise it. Unfortunately, I have not used it for a leavened bread, so I can't tell you precisely how it will behave for your particular needs. I make flat bread and pasta with it. It rolls out beautifully for flat bread and seems to have been partly sifted, so little rough bits don't cut into my pasta, making smoother wheat pasta that American stone ground whole wheat. (For pasta I mix with white flour).

If you want to make a whole wheat leavened bread with Indian whole wheat flour (probably called "chapati flour" or possibly "100 % whole wheat atta"), I'd anticipate needing to alter the amount of water added from my usual recipe and I might consider adding vital wheat gluten if I had it (and if that is allowed for your purpose *). I anticipate it would make a tender, soft to chew, tasty leavened bread, slightly denser than usual. Its flavor is less pronounced than stone ground American wheat. Flavor would increase if leavened by true sourdough and allowed a long ferment, which is the way I'd make a whole wheat leavened bread. If you use dried yeast method to leaven, I'd consider to autolyse the bread for 30 minutes, and only then add the salt, yeast and remainder of flour.

I bet you can get the chapati flour in Canada no problem, since I think one brand comes from there. Isn't bread fun! :thumbsup: (or is it that your friend is in Canada, not you)

*Vital wheat gluten can be gotten by a simple hand process from wheat flour and water and kneading and rinsing. It is just tedious.

[/quote]

I am in Canada.

Interesting. When the time comes I will have to experiment on the different kinds of wheat and see what is best used. Have you tried this thing they called "ancient wheat"? I'm tempted by the novelty of possibly using wheat that is more natural, thus more in line of what they had back in the day, rather than the genetically modified wheat we have today. I heard that non-GMO wheat reacts better with those having gluten issues. Not sure how much truth is in that.


#11

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:10, topic:332043"]
I am in Canada.

Interesting. When the time comes I will have to experiment on the different kinds of wheat and see what is best used. Have you tried this thing they called "ancient wheat"? I'm tempted by the novelty of possibly using wheat that is more natural, thus more in line of what they had back in the day, rather than the genetically modified wheat we have today. I heard that non-GMO wheat reacts better with those having gluten issues. Not sure how much truth is in that.

[/quote]

I recommend you try spelt, at least. Spelt is slightly sweeter maybe than modern whole wheat, either that or it is because I get very fresh specialty flour for it. I store spelt flour in the freezer and make it when I want risen whole wheat bread instead of flatbread. Here is a site with video for how to make all spelt bread. Site is not Catholic, but video is helpful if you have not seen the stretch and fold method to replace ordinary kneading. It is great for arthritic hands and produces excellent results.

(I guess I keep three types of wheat at home, ooops my original post was factually inaccurate) I have no idea if the gluten issue works better with the older strains of wheat. It still has plenty of gluten, clearly.

Edit: I just remembered he uses a cloche or whatever to bake the bread. Just use ordinary pizza stone or whatever is your typical method if you are not that bread-crazy.


#12

[quote="Pug, post:11, topic:332043"]
I recommend you try spelt, at least. Spelt is slightly sweeter maybe than modern whole wheat, either that or it is because I get very fresh specialty flour for it. I store spelt flour in the freezer and make it when I want risen whole wheat bread instead of flatbread. Here is a site with video for how to make all spelt bread. Site is not Catholic, but video is helpful if you have not seen the stretch and fold method to replace ordinary kneading. It is great for arthritic hands and produces excellent results.

(I guess I keep three types of wheat at home, ooops my original post was factually inaccurate) I have no idea if the gluten issue works better with the older strains of wheat. It still has plenty of gluten, clearly.

Edit: I just remembered he uses a cloche or whatever to bake the bread. Just use ordinary pizza stone or whatever is your typical method if you are not that bread-crazy.

[/quote]

I have a KitchenAid to do the kneading for me :D


#13

[quote="runningdude, post:3, topic:332043"]

A group of nuns has a recipe for a wafer that removes all but a trace of the gluten to accommodate those who are sensitive; however those who can't eat any gluten are allowed to receive from just the chalice.

.

[/quote]

For the record, I believe that anyone can receive only from the chalice.


#14

What was the type of bread used by the Jews for Passover? How was the flour made for it?


#15

Ah, luxury! :smiley:


#16

[quote="The_Serpent, post:14, topic:332043"]
What was the type of bread used by the Jews for Passover? How was the flour made for it?

[/quote]

In the book of Exodus it says the dough they brought out of Egypt was not leavened so they baked it into unleavened loaves.


#17

[quote="Pug, post:15, topic:332043"]
Ah, luxury! :D

[/quote]

We got into baking so it was a worthwhile investment. And of course I waited for a sale to get one. It's even colored Apple Green because the other nicer colors were more in demand, thus they didn't put it on sale. But I didn't care, I'm not using it as a decor in my kitchen, just when we make baked stuff.


#18

I bet your color will end up being a popular retro color anyway.

I let my mixer (not a workhorse like yours) die and haven’t replaced it with anything; rather, I pulled out the cheap electric hand mixer I had before marriage. I’ve enjoyed the extra counter space. I don’t bake for a crowd, though. You’ll appreciate that mixer. :slight_smile:


#19

[quote="Pug, post:18, topic:332043"]
I bet your color will end up being a popular retro color anyway.

I let my mixer (not a workhorse like yours) die and haven't replaced it with anything; rather, I pulled out the cheap electric hand mixer I had before marriage. I've enjoyed the extra counter space. I don't bake for a crowd, though. You'll appreciate that mixer. :)

[/quote]

Also the biggest reason I got the mixer is because we only have one counter where we can prepare the bread and also where we prepare all other food, including meats. It was time consuming to be cleaning the whole counter everytime I need to knead dough.

Anyway, it is interesting how flour is different from place to place. I do remember my friend tell me how many varieties of wheat there is.


#20

[quote="ccmcmg, post:13, topic:332043"]
For the record, I believe that anyone can receive only from the chalice.

[/quote]

The accomodations for the Totally gluten intolerant are reception from a chalice/communion cup that was not the main chalice, and has not been used for intinction. Note that this accommodation is rare in the Roman church, but well educated priests are generally aware of the rubrics involved. (Cdl. Arinze has discussed it in public Q&A before.)

Receiving the accommodation, however, may require a note from the doctor.

Note that pastors can request the celiac sufferers to provide for the special low gluten hosts; one I'm aware of simply told celiac sufferers to come forward at the same time as the EMHCs, and receive first. He didn't want to risk confusion of which host was which. Another bought large hosts of low gluten, and when celiac sufferers were present, had them come to him; an altar server held the main paten, with a portion of the large host.

Specific methods of accommodation vary by parish, but the rubrics in the US call for accommodation of one form or another. But to be able to expect the accommodation, expect to notify the priest several days ahead of time.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.