Can we be sure if a definite person is in hell?


#1

apart from Judas, who is definately in hell? How about Hitler? Devils are NOT humans and shouldn’t be included in the discussion.


#2

[quote=abcdefg]apart from Judas, who is definately in hell? Hitler? Devils are NOT humans and shouldn’t be included in the discussion.
[/quote]

No we can not be certain at all. We can ‘assume’ hitler is in hell or another 10,000 human monsters that have walked the Earth but we can be positive of none because God has not revealed it. Only he knows for sure and he judges the heart. I can assume there must be a few Ted Bundy’s and Jeffery Damers in hell. But then again who can even fathom the extent of Gods love and mercy.

-D


#3

Revelation 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it; and death and hades delivered up the dead who were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


#4

you can never be sure if someone repented the second before they died.


#5

[quote=abcdefg]apart from Judas, who is definately in hell? How about Hitler? Devils are NOT humans and shouldn’t be included in the discussion.
[/quote]

Not so sure if Judas is there either. There is a great heap of extenuating circumstances involving Judas, so much so there is still questions regarding his case today. He may have been guilty, but consideration I believe should be given due to his role play in the desired event. This is because I have not seen evidence that everyone in those days had the choice to choose not to betray, and I know this is theologically deviant. Admitedly, there is also the evidence Jesus in NT said he was Satan, that pretty much clinches the outcome for him as Satan can only reside in one place. I would like to think he be last to enter heaven after everyone else, but hell?.

Dogmatically, no one can be certain. We have the criminal on the cross who at the last minute repented and was told he had a one-way ticket to heaven. Sincerity carries a lot of weight in the outcome it would appear.

On the other hand giving us examples of extremes, one particular story of a saint who had witnessed souls falling said he/she saw a girl fall and she was guilty of not listening to her mother. She fell hitting the surface with no buffer. Today, in our
generation I would say that covers a lot of people, some in my immediate sphere of loved ones I admit.

We have the story in Acts 5 where Peter was taking tithes for the new church and a man and wife did not relinquish all they had and Peter summerarily killed them by desire on the spot. It didn’t mention hell for them, but in these stories it would appear the standards change, so lest the guilty should try to ask for repentance, best to dispatch quickly to ensure the correct destination.

On the point of Hitler,Bundy,Ghengis Kahn,etc it would have been an interesting scene to see these genuinely repentant and asking for foregiveness. (Dahmer did realize his horrors I believe). The world would hold their breath in anticipation. A lot concerning our dogma would be at stake depending on the decision Jesus made, but we have no example of these, and I wonder if that is simply by coincidence. What an excellent opportunity to show God’s forgiveness in extreme cases.

Dahmer I feel requires seperate mention. I think this young man may have been ill in some way. In fact if anyone should go to hell it’s his murderer who insisted he was doing good when he did it, (recently we have an example of a missionary of God doing his duty when a defrocked priest was murdered) a prime example of being swayed over to satan 100%.

So who’s to say, best keep oneself spotless.

Andy


#6

No man can say for sure anyone has gone to hell. For we do not know what a man or woman is really feeling in their heart during their last moments of life. Many murders confessed their sins before God before their execution and they were freely forgiven.Only God knows the human heart. I often contemplate that if I would have made a wrong decision in my life, where I might have wound up, if not for the grace of God. There were times in my life I was deeply hurt and thought of killing my ex wife with a gun for running around on me. I’m serious. One time I wanted to beat my Foreman to a pulp for his harassment. There have been times of lewd immoral thoughts as well with other men’s wives. Where would I have been if God would have not intervened? It is sooooo true. There I go, but for the Grace of God. Thank you Jesus for showing mercy to my rotten soul.


#7

couple o’ thoughts

if we consider that the earth, the physical creation, is, to make visible the Mystery of God, it stands to reason why God would point out lives that do this and give little attention to those who do not. It also serves Satan to reveal truth by pointing out what it’s not.


#8

Hello abcdefg,

Scripture tells us that Korah is in hell. It seems that in God’s eyes one must never do what priests do unless they are from the God authorized succession of the priesthood.

**NAB JUD 1:10 **

These people, however, not only revile what they have no knowledge of but are corrupted through the very things they know by instinct, like brute animals. So much the worse for them! They have taken the road Cain took. They have abandoned themselves to Balaam’s error for pay, and like Korah they perish in rebellion. These men are blotches on your Christian banquets. They are wild ocean waves, splashing their shameless deeds abroad like foam, or shooting stars for whom the thick gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

NAB NUM 16 Then Moses became very angry and said to the LORD, “Pay no heed to their offering. I have never taken a single *** from them, nor have I wronged any one of them.”

Korah. Moses said to Korah, “You and all your band shall appear before the LORD tomorrow–you and they and Aaron too. Then each of your two hundred and fifty followers shall take his own censer, put incense in it, and offer it to the LORD; and you and Aaron, each with his own censer, shall do the same.” So then all took their censers, and laying incense on the fire they had put in them, they took their stand by the entrance of the meeting tent, the glory of the LORD appeared to the entire community, and the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Stand apart from this band, that I may consume them at once.” But they fell prostrate and cried out, “O God, God of the spirits of all mankind, will one man’s sin make you angry with the whole community?” The LORD answered Moses, “Speak to the community and tell them: Withdraw from the space around the Dwelling” [of Korah, Dathan and Abiram].

**Punishment of Dathan and Abiram. **Moses, followed by the elders of Israel, arose and went to Dathan and Abrim. Then he warned the community, “Keep away from the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that is theirs: otherwise you too will be swept away because of all their sins.” When Dathan and Abiram had come out and were standing at the entrance of their tents with their wives and sons and little ones, Moses said, "This is how you shall know that it was the LORD who sent me to do all that I have done, and that it was not I who planned it: if these men die an ordinary death, merely suffering the fate common to all mankind, then it was not the LORD who sent me. But if the LORD does something entirely new, and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them alive down into the nether world, with all belonging to them, then you will know that these men have defied the LORD." No sooner had he finished saying all this than the ground beneath them split open, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their families [and all of Korah’s men] and all their possessions. They went down alive to the nether world with all belonging to them; the earth closed over them, and they perished from the community. But all the Israelites near them fled at their shrieks, saying, “The earth might swallow us too!”

**Punishment of Korah. **So they withdrew from the space around the Dwelling [of Korah, Dathan and Abiram]. And fire from the LORD came forth which consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense.

The LORD said to Moses, “Tell Eleazar, son of Aaron the priest, to remove the censers from the embers; and scatter the fire some distance away, for these sinners have consecrated the censers at the cost of their lives. Have them hammered into plates to cover the altar, because in being presented before the LORD they have become sacred. In this way they shall serve as a sign to the Israelites.” So Eleazar the priest had the bronze censers of those burned during the offering hammered into a covering for the altar, in keeping with the orders which the LORD had given him through Moses. This cover was to be a reminder to the Israelites that no layman, no one who was not a descendant of Aaron, should approach the altar to offer incense before the LORD, lest he meet the fate of Korah and his band.

Peace in Christ,

Steven Merten **www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com **


#9

While we can never fully judge the state of a person’s soul, we should not become too inclined to believe that Hell is nearly empty or that one has to be a Hitler to go there. We must always remember the words of Our Lord in the Gospel of St. Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.”


#10

[quote=Steven Merten]Hello abcdefg,

Scripture tells us that Korah is in hell. It seems that in God’s eyes one must never do what priests do unless they are from the God authorized succession of the priesthood.

They like all who’s lives ended before the coming of Christ went to a netherworld destined to witness the Light of Christ’s Gospel . The place the false priests went may or may have not been the hell of eternal damnation

.**Punishment of Korah. **

So they withdrew from the space around the Dwelling [of Korah, Dathan and Abiram]. And fire from the LORD came forth which consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense.
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’e] 49Everyone will be salted with fire.

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.

“I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

John answered them all, “I baptize you with Or in] water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
[/quote]


#11

What translation of the Bible are you using?

[quote=Benadam]They like all who’s lives ended before the coming of Christ went to a netherworld destined to witness the Light of Christ’s Gospel . The place the false priests went may or may have not been the hell of eternal damnation
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’e] 49Everyone will be salted with fire.

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.

“I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

John answered them all, “I baptize you with Or in] water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
[/quote]


#12

[quote=dumspirospero]What translation of the Bible are you using?
[/quote]

I’m pretty sure the bible quotes I used are from the NIV. The bible that I read during the bulk of my formation so far is the original version of the Jerusalem bible.


#13

Jesus was pretty clear IMHO - “Don’t judge”. Unless God has revealed it, don’t make assumptions about anyone.


#14

There is no hell, therefore there is no-one in it.


#15

[quote=BlessedBe13]There is no hell, therefore there is no-one in it.
[/quote]

Hi Blessedbe, Hitler is happy to hear that according to you. :smiley: God Bless


#16

[quote=BlessedBe13]There is no hell, therefore there is no-one in it.
[/quote]

So according to your beliefs everyone is good. :confused: God Bless


#17

[quote=BlessedBe13]There is no hell, therefore there is no-one in it.
[/quote]

I am praying for you, that Jesus may one day lead you into His Holy Church.

Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins
save us from the fires of hell
lead all souls to Heaven
especially those in most need of thy mercy

Peace and Love


#18

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi Blessedbe, Hitler is happy to hear that according to you. :smiley: God Bless
[/quote]

Nice seeing you again Spokenword. :wink:

While Hitler did some horrible things during his life, he was not “evil” every second of his life, so why should even he deserve eternal torture and suffering?


#19

[quote=SPOKENWORD]So according to your beliefs everyone is good. :confused: God Bless
[/quote]

That is very untrue. I do not believe people are inherently “bad”, but people do make mistakes, and people do commit evil deeds. One would have to be living under a rock not to realize this, and because I do not live under a rock, I can see or hear about the bad committed by people on a daily basis. However, I do not believe that anyone is so evil, or has been evil their ENTIRE lives, that they would deserve to face eternal torture and punishment - that is, if one believes in an ALL loving Creator, which I do.


#20

[quote=cyprian]I am praying for you, that Jesus may one day lead you into His Holy Church.

[/quote]

Thank you, but I already am done with Christianity (Catholicism to be specific) and I do not see myself going back as I disagree with too much of what is taught.


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