Can we discuss Judaism without the politics?


#87

As a Persian, there was no Iraq back then. There was Persia and Babylon was part of Persia. Yes, they were exposed to Zoroastrianism. I’ve even read that prior to that exposure the jews viewed the devil differently


#88

That is absurd. And that is the type of exageration I am talking about.

I find it hilarious that exactly no evidence has been provided, but i have been called scum, had my posts deleted, and accused of being a Nazi despite my never denying the holocaust happened…

Questioning the narrative equals a personal attack but calling someone scum is apparently just fine.


#89

I don’t believe they emigrated to Europe. If Zoroastrianism had any influence on the West, it was limited to the Jewish community. It doesn’t figure in the history of the Christian West. Where do you see any recognizable trace of it anywhere in the West today?


#90

Oh, yeah, sure. Zoroastrianism had no effect on Christianity. But it had an effect on Judaism, which was the foundation of Christianity. It’s very indirect.

Yes, I do. If you read the gathas of Zarathustra and then read the psalms of David you see a lot of parallels. Also there are parallels in how Jews and Zoroastrians viewed God as truth and light and the devil as the father of lies and darkness


#91

You can say that about many other religions. Zoroastrianism is not part of the Western Christian historical narrative.


#92

What’s wrong with saying that Judaism evolved over time and was influenced by Zoroastrianism due to jews living in Persia for 300 years?

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

Here’s what a jewish encyclopedia from 1906 says:

Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

Now I know many people don’t hold that view, but I do and I think it’s a reasonable position to hold.

But I take issue with saying Zoroastrianism is dualistic or quasi-monotheistic. Ahura Mazda created Ahriman


#93

Veen a few hours. Still waiting.


#94

Are you really asking for facts that show that the holocaust happened?

Here you go: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/combating-holocaust-denial-evidence-of-the-holocaust-presented-at-nuremberg


#95

Mostly I’m just being asking because my original point (that shutting down all discussion and insulting anyone who has legitimate questions and doubts) was turned into “you’re scrum! You denier!” And then my posts were deleted, leaving the smear (that i am a “denier”) unchallenged and all evidence of what i did say being erased.

The narrative cannot be questioned. But since the mod told me i will be banned for daring to ask a question, i suppose this will be it for me.


#96

Considering this is a topic called can we discuss Judaism without the politics, this isn’t the topic for that kind of discussion–since it would be with the politics


#97

However, sometimes the word “Talmud” is used to mean only the Gemara, not the Mishnah.


#98

Legitimate doubts?

What the hell are you talking about?


#99

How about doing some research on the matter before you call something absurd? War is frankly h*ll, and people do unspeakable things to one another.
You have every right to feel hurt by being called “scum.” And I am sorry that it happened. So now you have two choices. They are; stay and forgive, or leave Catholic Answers Forums and hopefully forgive.


#100

Well, that’s what a World War II vet (my elementary school music teacher) told my entire class. He said he was there and just avoided being killed himself as others were killed by the tank.

Why do you think this man, who was my elementary school music teacher would lie to a bunch of elementary school students back in the 1980s?


#101

Don’t be fooled, this site has all the answers you’re seeking. Also, I don’t take to kindly to threats, so please don’t make them anymore when messaging me or else.

Haha! There’s a fun threat in of itself, the eternal clinche. I should be a movie writer, eh?

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/background-and-overview-of-holocaust-denial


#102

We were exposed to the pagan religions of the era, though don’t be fooled, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzach and Yaakov came before any fake deities anyone can think up. Go in peace


#103

I’d like to know how so. Based on my education, there is no Devil in Judaism. HaSatan is an ally of G-d, he works for the Divine. Did that change while in Babylon, I don’t know. Id like to see what you’d have to bring to the table. We do know that the Chazal (sages) we’re very honest when it came to these kind of things. For example, we’re told by Nachmanides that our calendar was an off-shoot of Persia. Therefore, we’d expect to see that kind of honesty anywhere else. Because we don’t see it as much leads me to believe that our tradition did not simply steal from the pagan nations.


#104

I called you scum for good reason. Though I apologize for it, note for future dialogues that the Shoah is VERY personal as well as emotional, therefore, don’t step on any toes. We’re all doing our hardest to keep things civil here, won’t you help us meet that goal?


#105

You’re wrong here. First, I’d like to see proof of such parallels, and how are you sure Dovid HaMelech didn’t write first?

Secondly, there is no Devil figure in Judaism in the Christian sense of the character, so you can’t compare the two. Isaiah 45:7 reminds us that only G-d is in control, for it is He who creates both good and evil.

Go in peace my friend


#106

Note well how your quote from the Jewish Encyclopedia stayed “most scholars” and not most rabbis. The two don’t usually agree on anything, so I wouldn’t put any stock on it.


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