Canada: Orthodox Jew forced off plane


#1

After having read this article, I’m left quite frustrated with this Jewish man’s experience. I don’t understand why this man was asked to leave the plane and catch the next flight. This seems to strongly smack of discrimination in my opinion.


#2

Well, muslims were recently escorted off a plane for praying out loud and making other passengers nervous. I guess the airline felt that it had to do the same. Everyone is inconvenienced when this happens, I suppose, but not as inconvenienced as the person being escorted off the plane. I guess I’d chalk it up to another thing that makes flying not as simple as before 9/11, but probably does make the other passengers on those flights feel safer.:slight_smile:


#3

But is that really acceptable?

How far do we go in the name of “feeling” safe?

I was not familiar with the Muslim incident – but if this is the case, then it seems to me that the Muslims were being discriminated against too. :frowning:


#4

Perhaps I should put a Catholic test to it and recite the full rosary out loud.

Because we live in Protestant America, I am sure I would too be escorted off the flight.

I would think this would violate my personhood and the airline and the goverment which would prevent me from reciting the rosary would violate my personal religious right as American of the seperation of Church and State, and that Congres can not make a law prohibiting me from my religion.

The only defense I would assume is that the airline is privatly operated and can to a certain point make there own rules, I can choose which airline to fly with.


#5

All I can say is that Anti-Semitism is on the rise yet again.


#6

It would be an interesting test to be sure.

I just felt really bad for the Jewish fellow. He didn’t speak English or French and was just wanting to go home if I recall correctly. In other words, he was essentially forced to stay off the plane simply because he was bothering other people due to his prayers.

I just find this whole situation sad. :frowning:


#7

Hi all!

(How long was the board down?)

On flights to/from Israel, orthodox Jewish men at prayer (for morning prayers, men will wear prayer shawls & phylacteries; see jewfaq.org/signs.htm) is a pretty routine sight.

DW, Da Boyz & I just (2.5 weeks ago) got back from a visit to Cape Town (where DW is from). To make the 11:00 El Al flight from Johannesburg to Tel Aviv, we had to catch a domestic South African Airways flight from Cape Town to Jo’burg at 06:20. We had to get up at 04:00 to leave my mother-in-law’s flat at 05:00 to catch the 06:20 flight. I didn’t have time to pray on the ground so I said my morning prayers on the flight to Jo’burg. Naor (will be 6 in November) was seated on my left. On my right was an Afrikaner woman. Since there was no place to stand (which is preferable), I said my morning prayers (about 25 minutes) while seated. I pulled on my prayer shawl & phylacteries, said my prayers & then took everything off. As we were having breakfast, I thanked the woman to my right for her patience every time Naor wanted to get out of his seat. She said, “Are you going to Israel?” It turns out that she had volunteered on a kibbutz 18 years ago (right near the spot where David & Goliath duked it out). I said, “So seeing me praying with all my stuff on, wasn;t the first time you had seen a Jewish man praying?” She said, “Oh no.” She was very nice.

Yohanan (9) & I were in the USA 3 months after 9-11. We flew early one morning from Pittsburgh to Ft. Lauderdale. It was during Hanukkah & I had to pray on the plane. Nobody said a word although I did get more than a few stares.

DW, Yohanan & I flew to Southb Africa once via Turkish Airlines. On the Istanbul-Jo’burg flight, I again prayed on the plane. I got stared at but the Islamic (I presume) stewardesses were helpful & polite.

I would hope that Canadian civil rights organizations would consider taking up this Jewish man’s case & suing the airline. Why should he be made to suffer for the bigotry, irrational fears & ignorance of others? I, as an orthodox Jew, would be grossly offended if a Catholic saying the rosary were to be reproached by the cabin crew. When one faith suffers is a victim of bigotry, ignorance, etc., all traditional faiths are victimized along with it.

Be well!

ssv :wave:


#8

Hmm… i wonder if when im a Seminarian, and im wearing the Cassock and the Roman Collar, and i come back over to the UK to visit my parents, if i would get stopped on the plane…

I wouldnt put it past the general public, the probably wont even be able to tell im Catholic or not…


#9

Yep, the Fourth Reich is definitely on the march. Here’s a role model for you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Leo


#10

I don’t think so. Because people would not confuse your praying with muslim praying. The Jew who was praying scared people on the plane who did not know the difference between jewish and muslim prayers. Hard for me to believe, but I think that was the airlines concern. not with the person praying but with the possible panic it would cause.


#11

The Jew who was praying scared people on the plane who did not know the difference between jewish and muslim prayers. Hard for me to believe, but I think that was the airlines concern. not with the person praying but with the possible panic it would cause.

Why’s it hard to believe? You hear someone praying in a Semitic language on an airplane, I think a little jumpiness can be excused. Maybe you know the difference (I do too), but you should be charitable to others’ ignorance. If we were at war with North Korea, I bet Japanese people would be having this problem. The two languages and ethnicities seem totally different to me, but I bet most Americans (or Canadians) don’t know the difference.

How much you wanna bet, though, that Eastern Orthodox, who are often mistaken for Muslims, might have a similar problem to this unlucky Jewish guy?


#12

i never heard of any Jew hijacking a plane and killing thousands in the name of God. That was unfair, though it is obvious they took him for a Muslim…

This applies to Islam though. Discrimination? maybe…but who started it? better be safe than sorry…if the flight attendants of 9/11 behaved in the same way, a disaster could have been avoided. The problem is that you can never be sure of what kind of Muslim is sitting next to you. The ones responsible for 9/11 also prayed. No matter how much you teach people, the threat of another threat is always there.


#13

You never heard Jews (Zionists) already have a free license from the Christian West to even go after the whole Lebanon and kill whoever they want and demolish whatever they like with the most advanced bombs provided by the Christian West?

Isn’t shamefull that Crusaders, Missoulini, Hitler, Timothy McVeigh, Ms England were Judeo Christians?


#14

I guess I have a different opinion here. I think people of all faiths ought to pray silently while in public. I think it’s unnerving and distracting to others, and is not different than if someone broke out in song, while on the plane. You can say the Rosary while whispering and not make a spectacle of yourself around other people.

I’ve flown many times, and generally ettiquette on airplanes is to mind your own business. You often can be on a flight of hours and only say a few words to your next door seatmate. I’ve taken buses and trains and people are more social on them, but on planes often people don’t want to interact too much.


#15

No, you cannot do this. It is not just; it is not ethical; it is not moral. Once you start punishing the many for the sins of the few, where does it stop? We would be suspicious of anyone different than us. In other words, xenophobia.


#16

I could be wrong. But, if I recall correctly, the man was praying silently. It was his appareance and rocking motions while praying which unnerved some of the other passengers.


#17

I would ask you to do research before bringing lies. Mussolini, Hitler, and McVeigh can not be construed to being judeo-christian. Mussolini was well known for his distain of the church. Hitler was very much an occultist. McVeigh chose to keep his religious preferences secret, and you have no right to say his is anything just to slander a faith.

I will grant that the Crusaders were Christian.

I have no clue who Ms England is and the name is generic enough where searching gets little results.

Furthermore, your attacks on Israel are nothing more than conspiracy theory and are obviously filled with hate and prejudice. I pray that you might one day find compassion and understanding.

-Penitant


#18

So, social norms take precedence over religous expression? Funny, I thought that, in Canada, people had the freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I could be wrong though.


#19

This is an obvious case of ignorance. It’s sad is to see people regarding prayers and individulas at prayer as threats.

Alex


#20

Ms England = Lynndie England = US Pte Lynndie England has been found guilty of abusing prisoners at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib jail.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4490795.stm

Here, you can see her in action:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/3689167.stm


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.