Canadian Infidelity?


#1

Does anyone here notice that the Canadian bishops just don’t seem to care that much about what the Pope has to say (on birth control, for example). Also, do you find that Canadian churches are almost always liturgically liberal introducing little innovations that are not really ‘Catholic at heart’? I have been finding this lately at my Church and others. No Church I ever go to uses any Latin, incense, has adoration, venerates saints, includes Mary in the mass at appropriate times etc- it really bugs me. My Bishop is Anthony Tonnos of the Diocese of Hamilton and I just find he doesn;t do or enforce these things- anyone else have similar findings?


#2

I have known several Canadians who have made similar observations. It is sad. There seems to be a connection between some of the immoral laws (abortion, homosexual “marriage”, free speech) in Canada and this apparent backing away from loudly proclaiming Catholic morality.


#3

Hi I’m from Saskatchewan and it doesn’t surprise me one bit.

Also they promote and enforce their catachism books which I found out aren’t even approved of.

God Bless; Kathy


#4

I would agree with you if I was still in my former Diocese of Nelson. There was much protestantization of the Mass there. I now live in Vancouver, and the difference is amazing! The Novus Ordo Churches here use incense, bells, and real altar boys. I usually attend the FSSP Latin Mass, but I sometimes go to the local NO. The NO priests dress in their cassocks and clerical clothing outside of Mass, there is an adoration chapel down the street, and one thing I really like is the way the priest blesses the altar boys before and after every Mass. They kneel before him in the foyer, he blesses them, and they recite a Hail Mary. I’m not very fond of the way the lay readers stay in the sanctuary for the entire Mass, but for the most part, it is a vast improvement from what I was used to. I believe the Vancouver archbishop is a very good one.


#5

Part of the reason for the dismal state of affairs in Canada has to do with the Canadian bishops rejecting the GIRM, (apparently due to the cultural differences between the English and French bishops as well as differences between the very liberal bishops and the more traditional ones). Our bishops refused to abide by the GIRM; and the CCCB submitted a list of requested indults for liturgical approval. Some of the requests were for inclusive language (no surprise there), and others were for additional Eucharistic prayers. The end result is that we must follow what each Diocesan bishop lays down in matters of the Liturgy, while this matter churns perpetually in Rome.

Another problem is the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops betrayed the teachings of the Church on artificial contraception by refusing to accept the 1969 encyclical of Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, which is widely considered the greatest charter of life and love over any other document in human history.

The document, Tragedy at Winnipeg, tells the story of dissent, and how a well-informed and well-formed conscience was considered by the CCCB to override the traditional teachings of the Church on artificial contraception.

Just because many Catholics may find it either extremely difficult or even impossible to follow all of the teachings of the encyclical, the CCCB does not want them to be considered excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. So they devised a statement to deal with the difficulties that contraception provided to the Catholic faithful.

The problematic text of paragraph 26 of the Winnipeg Statement reads:

"Counsellors may meet others who, accepting the teaching of the Holy Father, find that because of particular circumstances they are involved in what seems to them a clear conflict of duties, e.g., the reconciling of conjugal love and responsible parenthood with the education of children already born or with the health of the
mother. In accord with the accepted principles of moral theology, if these persons have tried sincerely, but without success to pursue a line of conduct in keeping with the given directives, they may be safely assured that, whoever chooses that course which seems right to him does so in good conscience.”

So even though Canadians accept the teachings of the Holy Father, we are told by our bishops that in some circumstances, (with the aid of a well-formed conscience of course) we need not observe these teachings. In short, we are told that we can balance the right of a future child’s life with proper education and lifestyle for those children already born.

The Church issued us a divine teaching on natural law with Humanae Vitae. It is deplorable that our bishops distorted divine moral theology, and still, forty years later, have not corrected their errors.


#6

Having lived in 3 different dioceses (St. Catharines, Ottawa, London) over the course of the past 2 years, I am quite happy with my bishops. Perhaps I am just ignorant, however the parishes I have attended seem to perpetrate a small number of liturgical abuses (please don’t flame me for saying “small number”), and my current parish is quite vibrant. Full of stewardship AND orthodoxy. My confessors have been excellent (in my home diocese of St. Catharines, I occasionally get to confess to the retired bishop!!), and I haven’t had a problem with finding a First Friday Adoration anywhere.
I understand your desire for Latin, incense and extra-missal veneration of saints and Mary, but please remember that these things are not requirements (although it may have the feel of putting in the minimal amt). And I gotta say, you have a beautiful cathedral!


#7

may iask approved by who?just askin. i have noticed that the catachism books to me seem more fluff then stuff.


#8

I’m from Ottawa and things are great here. We have perpetual adoration in multiple parishes. We have a domimican college. We have very beautiful basilicas. There is an Latin Mass parish that I also attend. There are also the Companions of the Cross, who serve the more charismatic communities. We also have an Opus Dei chapter in the city, where you can go for spiritual direction.

I have no problems being orthodox in my faith here. :slight_smile:

God bless,
Ut


#9

Spirithound,

Mary, saints, incense and all that jazz is what makes us distinctly Catholic, no? It just feels like we are not ‘fully’, if you will, Catholic and it makes me mad. The #1 thing I have problem with is our hymnals ‘Catholic Book of Worship III’. We use songs that are theologically incorrect which calling the Eucharist the ‘bread’ and downplay the Real Presence… to me the Canadian Church just isn’t Catholic enough. It is estimated that in Canada 70% of priests do not believe in the Real Presence… that’s crazy! That’s why I’m off to the States when I become an adult (I am really impressed by the degree of orthodoxy at St. Pat’s cathedral and others which I have attended there. They use lot’s of latin, polyphony etc).

On the other hand, the Bishop of Ottawa I am a big fan of. He was the ONLY bishop who was courageous enough to stand up and support Humanae Vitae… so in that diocese I’m sure orthodoxy is alive and well-> lucky you.


#10

Yup. Prendergast rocks. :slight_smile:


#11

He also rocks because he is French… that’s the way we are… and that’s also the way we’ll win the FIFA cup. No, but really, he is a great bishop who you are fortunate to have.


#12

I haven’t noticed this stuff here. I keep reading about “liturgical abuses” online but I’ve never seen anything out of the ordinary here. Latin is pretty rare though, but I don’t think Latin is a requirement. They say the official mass prayers… Mary is mentioned in there. I think every Catholic church has at least some statues.

Although, I’ve very rarely heard sermons condemning artificial birth control or other specific sexual sins. But abortion is mentioned quite often.


#13

Since my priest came I have heard NOTHING about Mary… except on her feast days. No incense- ever- even on Christmas and feast days. The hymn books are oftentimes theologically incorrect. Clapping in church. The alter servers have no clue that they’re dealing with a SACRED ceremony and wear pink clothes. Woman come in low cut clothing.

THE WORST ONE:
98% of people at my Church, Corpus Christi, receive communion. DO you honestly think that all 98% have not mortally sinned as of recent- I doubt that. Very few in our Church go to confession. I just want change. I thought of asking the priest if I could start an orthodoxy club but I don;t think he’d react kindly.


#14

Also, with regards to the orthodoxy club, do you really think he’s going to react well to a 16 yr old telling him that his church needs an orhtodoxy club… I doubt it.


#15

Just make sure we don’t invite Chile next time. :slight_smile:


#16

Even if France doesn’t win Italy better not win… I’ve been mocking the Italian team for a year.


#17

Ok, well hold off on the orthodoxy club :wink: With perseverance, the parish itself will be that club. Have you gotten involved in your parish? I totally agree that some altar servers don’t know what they’re doing; have you considered serving at the altar? Is there a youth group at your parish? Bible study?
I also really want to caution you on assuming a certain portion of your parish is receiving our Lord in a state of mortal sin. It’s probably true, but it’s much more productive to channel this feeling into prayer. Then it becomes holy rage. Partake of the sacraments of Confession and the Eucharist often yourself. Others may see a line-up for Confession, and suddenly be convicted of their own sins. Pray for conversions.
Have you considered joining the choir? Then you could (gently) make some theologically correct suggestions for hymns.
Do you pray the Rosary? Ask our Lady to make herself known in your parish. How do you think she and the saints can be more present? Since you’re 16, you’re probably not in a position to donate a statue to the parish on your own, but maybe you can spearhead the campaign to get one.
Perhaps you can suggest to your priest to use incense a little more often?
Again, I just caution you, incense, bells, extra mentions of Mary and saints, other than in the prescribed missal prayers, is not obligatory. I totally understand and sympathize, because I love those things too, but they are externals. I believe that their absences are merely symptoms of a deeper illness. Don’t stress about Catholic trappings, go for the heart. Get involved, let your passion rub off on everyone around you.
God bless!~!!!


#18

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