Capuchin Franciscan Friars in Denver

Does anyone know if they are orthodox? I’ve looked at their website, and I am unsure if they are. They are heavily involved with the Mexican youth, which is fine, but I have a problem with people that act like they are the only ones on planet earth who matter and that we should give our full focus on them. Because of this I am unsure of their orthodoxy. Has anyone here met them in person? Or better yet, visited their Friary?

Capuchins are normally a strict Catholic monastic order if that is what you are asking...? :confused:

[quote="codefro, post:2, topic:255403"]
Capuchins are normally a strict Catholic monastic order if that is what you are asking...? :confused:

[/quote]

Well, first off, they are not monastic. Second off, I am asking if this particular group is crazy or not.

The answer is no

Franciscans typically (as in almost always) help the poor, it's one of their main Rules. If there's a large segment of Mexican youth who are poor in that area, this is probably just fine for them to focus on them.

[quote="Melchior, post:5, topic:255403"]
Franciscans typically (as in almost always) help the poor, it's one of their main Rules. If there's a large segment of Mexican youth who are poor in that area, this is probably just fine for them to focus on them.

[/quote]

I realize that is one of their main ministries, as I have been looking into the Franciscans for over a year and they have always been my favorite order. If the case you stated was indeed the truth, that would be fine, however, I think they are specifically choosing the Mexican population. To understand, know I am from the Dodge City Diocese in Kansas, and this is what they do here, so if I see a case like I saw on their website I automatically assume this is the reason. If I am wrong I apologize, but I have lived here all my life and this is simply what comes to mind automatically.

Is it possible that the problem is not with what they do but with your own view of life?

[quote="ATeutonicKnight, post:3, topic:255403"]
Well, first off, they are not monastic. Second off, I am asking if this particular group is crazy or not.

[/quote]

Why do you say that the Friars minor are not monoastic?

[quote="Cristiano, post:7, topic:255403"]
Is it possible that the problem is not with what they do but with your own view of life?

[/quote]

I don't have a problem with Mexicans at all. In fact, I love their culture (Especially their food). But the Mexican population down here is 85% illegal, and with that percentages 90% of them don't speak English. There was a time when I didn't like them, but I got over it.

No, I don't have a problem with Mexicans, I have a problem with illegals who live on government money and impose their language upon us, regardless of color. But the problem is, over here most of the Priests make them their main priority, and act like they are the only ones that matter, completely pushing aside everyone else, which makes us feel neglected.

[quote="SMOM, post:8, topic:255403"]
Why do you say that the Friars minor are not monoastic?

[/quote]

Monastic would imply they are Monks, or at least live the life of a Monk, which is the exact opposite of what they do. Friars go out into the world, preaching the word of God wherever they go. Monks stay cloistered from the world. There is a reason Saint Francis changed the name from Monk to Friar.

[quote="ATeutonicKnight, post:9, topic:255403"]
I don't have a problem with Mexicans at all. In fact, I love their culture (Especially their food). But the Mexican population down here is 85% illegal, and with that percentages 90% of them don't speak English. There was a time when I didn't like them, but I got over it.

I don't have a problem with Mexicans, I have a problem with illegals who live on government money and impose their language upon us, regardless of color. But the problem is, over here most of the Priests make them their main priority, and act like they are the only ones that matter, completely pushing aside everyone else.

[/quote]

Then you will probably have a big problem with the overall stance of RCC stances on harboring and helping illegal immigrants all over the country. Politically I understand your stance, but on the other hand these people are fleeing their country for a chance at life and the RCC wants to protect life.

[quote="codefro, post:11, topic:255403"]
Then you will probably have a big problem with the overall stance of RCC stances on harboring and helping illegal immigrants all over the country. Politically I understand your stance, but on the other hand these people are fleeing their country for a chance at life and the RCC wants to protect life.

[/quote]

I don't mind them coming over here to flee from their country at all. But if they're not willing to learn the language and become legal citizens, they are committing a highly immoral act because they are ripping off the government and becoming a burden for actual citizens. I would love it if they became citizens and learned the language, but they're not and they won't. Many of them expect us to change the language to Spanish, which, again, is immoral, and a case of being a sloth.

[quote="SMOM, post:8, topic:255403"]
Why do you say that the Friars minor are not monoastic?

[/quote]

This is from another thread and it is a statement from a Farnciscan friar:

The few times that you will see a friar offended is if you call them "monk" or "fathers". Those words imply a certain way of life that is foreign to friars. We're not monks and we have many friars who are priest and friar, but we're not the Dominican Fathers or Carmelite Fathers, etc. We're the friars.

[quote="ATeutonicKnight, post:12, topic:255403"]
I don't mind them coming over here to flee from their country at all. But if they're not willing to learn the language and become legal citizens, they are committing a highly immoral act because they are ripping off the government and becoming a burden for actual citizens. I would love it if they became citizens and learned the language, but they're not and they won't. Many of them expect us to change the language to Spanish, which, again, is immoral, and a case of being a sloth.

[/quote]

I totally see where you are coming from, and I personally can sympathize with your view. On the other hand, we need to keep watch on our hearts, and some of those statements are a bit generalized. If you haven't met the Mexican immigrants that the friars are seeking to help, it is hard to know whether they deserve the help or not.

Politically, I totally agree. I think the Catholic Church (while helping immigrants with necessities) should push for border justice. It isn't right for the local and federal governments to have funds drained on people that will not come over legally. We may see some of this heat up now that debates and elections are occuring/ approaching. As far as the friars though, they are just doing what they do best, spreading Christ's love. :)

[quote="Cristiano, post:13, topic:255403"]
This is from another thread and it is a statement from a Farnciscan friar:

The few times that you will see a friar offended is if you call them "monk" or "fathers". Those words imply a certain way of life that is foreign to friars. We're not monks and we have many friars who are priest and friar, but we're not the Dominican Fathers or Carmelite Fathers, etc. We're the friars.

[/quote]

I love Brother Joseph. :P

[quote="codefro, post:14, topic:255403"]
I totally see where you are coming from, and I personally can sympathize with your view. On the other hand, we need to keep watch on our hearts, and some of those statements are a bit generalized. If you haven't met the Mexican immigrants that the friars are seeking to help, it is hard to know whether they deserve the help or not.

Politically, I totally agree. I think the Catholic Church (while helping immigrants with necessities) should push for border justice. It isn't right for the local and federal governments to have funds drained on people that will not come over legally. We may see some of this heat up now that debates and elections are occuring/ approaching. As far as the friars though, they are just doing what they do best, spreading Christ's love. :)

[/quote]

You're right. And I'm sure they are a good bunch of people. I talked to a Seminarian friend of mine who is located in Denver. He said some of them are in his Seminary classes. He says the young ones live a more Capuchin lifestyle, whereas the older ones don't. I'm just concerned that they might be singling the Mexican population out. Oh well. I suppose I'll find out when I meet them, won't I?

[quote="ATeutonicKnight, post:10, topic:255403"]
Monastic would imply they are Monks, or at least live the life of a Monk, which is the exact opposite of what they do. Friars go out into the world, preaching the word of God wherever they go. Monks stay cloistered from the world. There is a reason Saint Francis changed the name from Monk to Friar.

[/quote]

I understand the difference between monks and friars, but I do not understand the term "monastic" to be as narrowly applied as you suggest.

"Monasticism or monachism, literally the act of "dwelling alone" (Greek monos, monazein, monachos), has come to denote the mode of life pertaining to persons living in seclusion from the world, under religious vows and subject to a fixed rule, as **monks*, *friars*, *nuns***, or in general as religious." *(emphasis mine)

From the Catholic encyclopedia: newadvent.org/cathen/10459a.htm

[quote="SMOM, post:17, topic:255403"]
I understand the difference between monks and friars, but I do not understand the term "monastic" to be as narrowly applied as you suggest.

"Monasticism or monachism, literally the act of "dwelling alone" (Greek monos, monazein, monachos), has come to denote the mode of life pertaining to persons living in seclusion from the world, under religious vows and subject to a fixed rule, as **monks*, *friars*, *nuns***, or in general as religious." *(emphasis mine)

From the Catholic encyclopedia: newadvent.org/cathen/10459a.htm

[/quote]

Precisely. It is a life secluded from the world. The Friars are out into the world everyday, whereas, as you suggest, Monks are secluded from the world, praying and working in their Monastery's, never to leave them unless there is a grave emergency. Saint Francis didn't want to have a Monastic order because (And I rather loosely-quote): "Saint Francis didn't want the Friars to have as much problem going from Monastery to Monastery." Therefore, he built a Religious life that is not secluding from the world at all. A life of being in the world, without being of the world.

For Teutonic Knight: Your statements about Mexican"illegal immigrants" are the same ones I heard against the Cubans in Miami Florida-even before Fidel Castro came to power. These arguments were also used against the Italians and Poles when they immigrated.....and even against the Irish by the Know Nothing Party in the 1800's. For your information, The "America First" movement apologists died off in the late 1930's and were finished off by the attack on Pearl Harbor. Trying the resurect that movement is akin to liberals trying to bring back the 1960's, only nastier.
Almost all arguments I have read and heard against recent illegal imigration are based on racial and religious predjudice, as are all U.S. Federal imigration legislation since 1920.

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:19, topic:255403"]
For Teutonic Knight: Your statements about Mexican"illegal immigrants" are the same ones I heard against the Cubans in Miami Florida-even before Fidel Castro came to power. These arguments were also used against the Italians and Poles when they immigrated.....and even against the Irish by the Know Nothing Party in the 1800's. For your information, The "America First" movement apologists died off in the late 1930's and were finished off by the attack on Pearl Harbor. Trying the resurect that movement is akin to liberals trying to bring back the 1960's, only nastier.
Almost all arguments I have read and heard against recent illegal imigration are based on racial and religious predjudice, as are all U.S. Federal imigration legislation since 1920.

[/quote]

As stated previously, I have no problems with Mexicans. I have met some very nice Mexicans that abide by U.S. laws and speak the language (I've also met some nice ones that don't, but you probably won't care about that part). In fact, I love Eduardo Veristigui. I don't care for the music much, but that doesn't matter really. The point stands: It's wrong for Priests and religious to care about them and them alone just because of their color. The rest of us feel neglected, and we feel as if we don't matter. You only matter if you're a Mexican. This is why I didn't like them at first, but I got passed my prejudice against them. If the Holy Father saw how these Priests treated them and how they treated us, he would be deeply disappointed and would explain to them their errors. But, seeing as how the Holy Father isn't making any plans to visit Kansas I don't think, this won't happen. Hopefully with our new Bishop this will all change.

But who am I kidding? None of these words will get through to you. "You have already condemned me in your mind" - Saint Padre Pio.

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