CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )


#508

Far be it for me to criticize the truth about crony capitalism and the exploitation of labor but there is another point regarding the type of work many migrants were employed to do.

The farming industry cannot employ just anyone. Most American farmers have been on a tractor from the time they were knee high to a grasshopper and can safely operate the machinery. Can you fill a silo?

Bailing hay (and even something as minor as knowing the difference between hay and straw) is a learned art of farming as well as a grueling time for the farmers to run the machinery that does it, then load it into their barns. It is NOT all strictly physical labor it requires knowledge as well. List every part of the tractor, now tell me what parts need to attach to it to do the aforementioned job.

Safety would be a major concern without the farming knowledge to do a job.

How many know the difference between beef cattle and a milk cow? A jersey vs an angus short horn cross?

How many know that a barb-wire fence cannot be cut during a repair? It will come back to wrap you like a whirl wind fury.

Most Americans unfamiliar with the workings of farm labor would be a major liability on a farm in terms of safety alone, let alone possibly destroying an entire crop. Most Americans unfamiliar with this vocation would not even be able to tell when a field is ripe for harvest, or good soil vs barren.

Some food for thought.


#509

Yes they ARE taken advantage of, but if they didn’t take the jobs they do, no one would take them.


#510

Most immigrants and legitimate employers WANT more work permits available. Immigration reform would help everyone.


#511

I will repeat this until the fat lady sings about cows coming home under a blue moon: Coming to the U.S. to seek asylum is legal.


#512

This is largely a red herring because it argues for admitting legitimate and legal immigrant employees, not illegals.

Can you explain why Caesar Chavez, a farmer worker from Mexico who worked diligently for the rights of Mexican farm laborers, himself guarded the border against an influx of illegals?

From the Wikipedia article on Caesar Chavez.

In 1969, Chavez and members of the UFW marched through the Imperial and Coachella Valleys to the border of Mexico to protest growers’ use of illegal immigrants as strikebreakers. Joining him on the march were Reverend Ralph Abernathy and U.S. Senator Walter Mondale. In its early years, the UFW and Chavez went so far as to report illegal immigrants who served as strikebreaking replacement workers (as well as those who refused to unionize) to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. In 1973, the United Farm Workers set up a “wet line” along the United States-Mexico border to prevent Mexican immigrants from entering the United States illegally and potentially undermining the UFW’s unionization efforts.

More food for thought.


#513

Economic betterment is not a legal reason for granting asylum.

And those seeking asylum have been offered that in Mexico, but most have refused. So are they desperate for asylum, or merely seeking economic opportunity? That isn’t asylum.


#514

I just spit out my morning coffee when I realized that you and I actually agree on something.

Although - just by way of reminder - these asylees aren’t “illegal” if they apply for asylum.


#515

Government officials review their petitions for asylum and will make that determination.


#516

Because must people I know in real life that want to secure the border actually want to do so for the protection of the migrants as well as our nation. That means that we want protections for people already here, to provide legal means for them to safely get here, be treated with dignity and not subjected to cruel practices, have a path to become legal once here, and deported if they are dangerous.


#517

My understanding is that claimants for asylum are permitted to enter the country while their case is considered. Then after several years in wait, 94% never show up for their hearing. In the meantime, the issue of birthright citizenship creates an additional factor.

So claiming asylum is largely a pretext for getting into the country. Since anyone can claim it, the procedure is deeply flawed.

I suppose I am not telling you anything you don’t already know.


#518

This is partially correct. If a claim for asylum meets specific criteria, the person or family is allowed entry while it is sorted out. If the criteria is not met, entry is denied.


#519

It’s all delicious when important points are pointed out. Enjoy the entre’. There is an important aspect to farming, whether working with livestock or equipment. Many Americans cannot do what migrant farmers were doing because…drum roll>>>>They don’t know how and are safety liabilities.

It was only a point, not subject to argument. Hay (no pun, lol) it is what it is. haha


#520

And most of those Americans who cannot do what migrant farmers are doing, but could, have been family farm descendants who have been put off of their family farms by large corporate interests which have forced them out. And that largely by importing cheap labour to do at a scale and cost that family farms could not.

So now, let’s expand that to all sectors of the economy, including tech.

That way we will completely gut the middle class and leave only the super rich and the poor to survive on low wages and the social security net. Nice globalist pogrom under the guise of socialist egalitarianism. Everyone will be treated equally – equally bereft.

Keep chewing.


#521

Just mentioning Harry that farming does indeed require some know how if one values their fingers and legs. Now about all this ^^^ YIKES…hahaha…have fun!~


#522

All the more reason to make real reforms and stop blaming the immigrants that have no power (or rights) to make any changes.


#523

I live in Texas, in the middle of farm and ranch country.

The local football team gets drafted to bale hay in the summer. It’s better than the gym!

All the dairy workers I’ve seen at the local dairies have been Anglo.

Whenever I see a man on a giant combine or a tractor, it’s generally the farmer, not a farmhand…

Around here, the Mexican laborers who come into our area generally go to the factories. (They get permission to work for 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, or year-round. If they haven’t earned permanent status, they need to leave the country for the other 9/6/3 months before returning for their next round of employment.) When they leave the country, they go to Mexico— to work in the fields in Mexico.

I’m not saying that there’s no seasonal labor anywhere, period. But I’m pointing out that sweeping generalizations are sweeping. :wink:


#524

Why would immigrants have rights to make changes within a country they are not citizens of?

I wouldn’t presume to claim rights to make changes to Mexico or Honduras, would you?

Does global citizenship imply such rights? If so, the Chinese and Indians would appear to have an unfair advantage, assuming they are like-minded.

What exactly are “real reforms?” Is the Constitution not the deciding criterion for reform, if any?

Perhaps the borders ought to be completely sealed until citizens of the country can hammer out a solid position based upon the Constitution?


#525

That’s not what I said. Of course they can’t. And no they shouldn’t be allowed to either. But it is why US citizens need to make the changes. Immigrants can’t.


#526

Dump children into the public school system, add traffic to roads, suppress wage growth, and overall just add more population. Which will then add demand on every aspect of society including housing and medical needs. Which will drive costs up. Resources that belong to citizens and legal residents.


#527

We could alway set up refugee camps in these countries, secure them with US troops, and feed and house these people there rather than letting them come here if all they seek is safety. We could even train equipment the men to oust their despotic governments while educating the women on how government should be run.


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