CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )


I tried to fact check “the local” on their claims regarding the Horowitz documentary.

The problem is that there is a pay wall block after a couple of clicks so I can’t go back to reference each claim.

Their first “fact” was that Horowitz claimed in the film that Sweden allowed 160 000 immigrants into the country in 2016.

I watch his video in its entirety, and nowhere does he make that claim. The video was made in 2016 and a woman journalist from Sweden does say that Sweden permitted 190 000 in “last year,” which would be 2015, not 2016.

Here is the video from Horowitz.

He makes very few claims, but those he interviews, including police officers, journalists and people on the street do provide their observations. Interestingly, Horowitz himself is attacked in one of the no-go zones as documented in the film. So was an Australian news team.

This video was the subject of media outrage when President Trump claimed in early 2017, I think, that Sweden was experiencing problems from allowing so many migrants in. The media castigated him for that, and, quite coincidentally, two days later rioters in one of the areas torched a number of cars and looted stores.

It appears that Horowitz’ presentation of the problem isn’t exactly “fast and loose,” but quite accurate, although you might not agree.


Speaking of “playing fast and loose” with the facts, it might be asked why western left-leaning governments are so reticent to disclose the actual facts regarding the effects of mass immigration policy.

An article from the National Review on the available statistics from Sweden makes this point.

To isolate the effect of immigration on crime, we need data on crimes committed by immigrants. Obtaining this type of data is easy in the United States or Denmark, but not in Sweden. The last time there was an official report breaking down crime statistics by immigrant status and origin was in 2005, for the years 1997 to 2001. These statistics confirmed that immigrants were significantly overrepresented amongst offenders, in particular in committing violent crimes. The foreign born were four times more likely to be suspects in homicide cases than those with Swedish origin, and 4.5 times more likely to be suspects in rape cases.

Since then, Swedish criminologists and politicians have made sure that no new statistics have been released. Not a single recent research study in Sweden has attempted to estimate the causal effect of immigration on sexual assault or homicide rates. Parliament recently defeated a motion to produce up-to-date crime statistics based on national origin. We simply do not know what percentage of sexual assaults or homicides were committed by immigrants last year in Sweden. The Swedish criminologists and government officials who adamantly deny the effect of immigration on crime don’t know these figures, and strikingly don’t want to know.

Horowitz was quite accurate pointing out the fact that 2001 was the last year Sweden tracked crime based upon country of origin of the perpetrators.

Let’s not speak of fast and loose until politicians and governments come clean on what is going on as a result of their failed policies. An accurate and complete data set would be a start.


Well, here is what progressive globalists do when faced with a real asylum request from someone actually desparate for asylum: refuse.

A young woman has more courage and faith than the entire UK political class. That should make you very confident that anything more than “scare tactics” won’t be handled with much in the way of a proper response.

The British judicial system was more concerned with not being called racist or Islamophobic than they were with protecting their young girls in places like Rotherham, so apparently scare tactics are very effective when it comes to politicians and law enforcement.


Look, if you’re going to rely on one and only one source and dismiss everything I cite with conspiracy theories, we’re not going to have positive or productive conversation.


It looks like they got tear gassed for approaching a LEGAL port of entry.

God have mercy on this country. We need to pray for these migrants.


It is pretty clear from May’s denial of asylum request for Asia Bibi that globalists like the EU, the UN, the Democrats, etc., care very little for the plight of individual human beings.

The caravan is a mass of humanity that can, because of its numbers, be used for political purposes to push an agenda – the dismantling of borders and national sovereignty. The individuals that make up that mass are not cared about except in terms of political ends.

We ought to pray for these people as individuals that they stop being trafficked and used, and that they find peace in their home countries.



In its own statement, the CBP directly defended its use of tear gas, writing on Twitter that Border Patrol agents “deployed” the substance “to dispel” migrants “because of the risk to agents’ safety.”

The agency asserted that several migrants had thrown projectiles at its agents, with some being struck by the objects.


There is good evidence that the women and children were pushed to the front of the group to dissuade the border agents from using any means to stop the rush of migrants.

There is also some evidence that the photographs of women and children fleeing the tear gas were posed or staged moments.

Neither were they “approaching a LEGAL port of entry.” They cut through a security fence and rushed the agents in the hope of making it onto American soil in order to claim an asylum hearing, as per the judge’s ruling,


And not only that, but it’s the principle of the thing.

We have to give in to someone’s demand to come into our country?

We have to let them put our agents in danger?

If we allow it, where does it end? We let the whole world stampede into our country?

And also, someone on the talk show last night (an immigration attorney) said that they’re (almost surely) not legitimate asylum seekers.

Legitimate asylum seekers almost never travel in groups. They don’t want to call attention to themselves; they don’t want to travel with people they don’t completely trust.


As a side note - women - are not always - these innocent people.

They are sometimes used as smugglers and kidnappers and other such things.

Even Hollywood is using women
as these mastermind judo expert killers - going through the enemy like Rambo.


If my son hits his brother, should I retaliate with a baseball bat? The feared-for-my-life defense is an old one to justify brutality from law enforcement; I have no doubt that border patrol is trying to CYA.

Conspiracy theories so far.


I suppose that the migrants broke through armed Mexican police, dismantled a fence, stormed the border and threw objects at border agents proves that they aren’t really seeking asylum.

Since when do asylum seekers treat those they hope will save them from a threat, and give them asylum from that threat, by attacking the very ones they are hoping will help them?

Sounds just a little twisted.

They aren’t really seeking asylum, they are attempting to score political points while the world looks on. Which is why postures are struck and narratives affirmed.


A perspective that ought to make you think a little deeper than low resolution narrative.


Tucker Carlson - had a pretty good opening to his show last night.
He’s been on vacation - due to - his house was surrounded by protesters - etc


More than 600 members of the 10,000 migrants traveling from Central America to the U.S. are convicted criminals, the country’s top security official said Monday evening.
In a Facebook post defending U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s handling of a large group of people who attempted to run over the U.S.-Mexico border Sunday, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said a significant number of those migrants were known as criminals in their countries of origin.
“[W]e cannot confirm the backgrounds and identities of all caravan members which possess a national security and public safety risk to our country. However, at this point we have confirmed that there are over 600 convicted criminals traveling with the caravan flow. This includes individuals known to law enforcement for assault, battery, drug crimes, burglary, rape, child abuse and more. This is serious,” Nielsen wrote. “Additionally, Mexico has already arrested 100 caravan members.”


You’re misrepresenting the situation, and I can’t believe you’re doing it by mistake. Two brothers fighting with each other isn’t the same as a group of people who already breached the borders of other countries by pulling down their fences, throwing rocks and concrete at CBP.

If someone starts throwing rocks and concrete at your son, are you going to open your door to them?


Try telling that to Robert Mueller. :smirk:

Some conspiracies are more equal than others, apparently. :rage:



We already have walls/fences and have for quite some time. So do most countries around the world. It’s not an unusual concept. And it’s necessary to have one that’s much stronger. No, it won’t completely stop illegal immigrants, but it will certainly slow them down, especially those bringing drugs and weapons across the borders.

It’s now been reported that the border camps are dealing with disease spreading - chicken pox, a polio type illness that doctors have no idea how to treat, tuberculosis, hepatitis, skin infections including MRSA, HIV/AIDS. Most of the people aren’t vaccinated and couple that with the people in this country who refuse to vaccinate and those with suppressed immune systems - we’re asking for a rapid and possibly deadly spread of disease across the country.

I don’t know who it was that told these people to do this. Who told them to just come here and force their way in - putting children’s safety and health at risk. Who it was that ferried them most of the way, but shame on them. It was clearly political, which is awful, these are human beings, not pawns.

What they should be doing is taking back their own country. You can’t have mass immigration like this, it NEVER works. It destabilizes the home country and the new one. We should help them fix their problems but on their own soil and only at their request and not perpetually.


More than 600 members of this caravan are known criminals.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit