CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )


#797

100-200 flying home is not significant given the thousands in the caravan. I am bothered at the conditions and feel Mexico and the US should provide better conditions to those waiting to apply as refugees.


#798

No, but I would certainly march myself over there and get an explanation.

The problem is the unwillingness to listen to their pleas. Mary and Joseph fled with Jesus to avoid the murderous Herod. They were refugees in a strange land. He could have chosen to come into this world however He wanted. He chose to become a refugee to show us the Way. I don’t doubt there are criminals among the refugees, but the vast majority of them walked all this way to escape horrors. The least we can do is hear what they have to say.

I also agree with the greater obligation to help their own country to be a place where they can live in peace, but in the meantime, we have an obligation to those in need. These are desperate people.


#799

That’s a different discussion. The comment that I quoted was concerning the treatment of those at the border (being tear-gassed) when people started throwing rocks at the border patrol. I was saying that we shouldn’t be obligated to allow in those who are trying to harm us, and that using tear gas to disperse the crowd was a justifiable response to a violent crowd who has a violent past (people in this same caravan tried killing a border patrol agent of another country just a month or so ago).


#800

OIC your point, of course.


#801

On Nov. 30th, same day an MS-13 gang member from Honduras was detained for illegal entry, they also caught a convicted murderer. DHS confirms 500-600 criminals in the caravan. I can’t post the link (profile’s too new), but it’s easy to find. And it’s USA Today, not Breitbart.


#802

President Obama’s Administration (harmlessly) pepper sprayed illegals. And the Leftist media was OK with that (as they should be).


#803

There but for the Grace of God, go I.


#804

This has very little to do with the grace of God. It has to do with the political strategies of the Democratic Party to gain power by importing malleable and vulnerable people to use as voters to flip districts, first in Cali, but be wary of the push in places like Georgia, Florida and Texas.

It is called “ballot harvesting,” and soon to be a reality at a politically close district near you, if the Dems get their way.


#805

At the risk of sounding syrupy, I will concur with St. Therese that “everything is Grace”. Regardless of what the conservatives or liberals can conceive outside of the tenants of social justice, Grace can still abound. That is the belief of a Catholic. We can pray His Will be done.


#806

I remember my supervisor - saying to me - in a totally astounded tone -
" You think Kavanaugh is innocent " ?? !!!
That was months ago - of course. The women lied.
Thou shalt not lie.
On and on - new devious things keep emerging.
On and on - there’s people - who quickly go along with it -
like a leaf in a stream - as if gospel truth.


#807

Questionable political strategies to grab power have very little to do with grace. And using vulnerable people to further political ends even less.


#808

Now the organizers appear to have abandoned the caravan and claim to have had nothing to do with organizing it.

Seems to me that grace is only compatible with taking responsibility for your actions instead of running off when things don’t go your way.


#809

I don’t believe in the conspiracy you presented, but nonetheless thank you for your opinion, discourse as well. I’ll continue to pray for the Grace for all concerned, what man cannot do, God can. bye


#810

Let’s not call it a conspiracy, but, rather, a metaphor or representation of a bigger picture.

The caravan represents – embodies, actually – the promise of socialism or collectivism.

A group of activists persuade a larger body to believe them and their vision for the future, so they actively move towards achieving that vision of utopia.

The vision inherently involves bettering your life, not by your own efforts or from your own situation, but by moving towards a utopia where you will benefit from the largesse of others. If that largesse is not forthcoming, then the organizers promise that either by making demands from or shaming or taking from those who have what you want, what you want will be turned over to you.

It isn’t that the organizers, themselves, have the wherewithal to provide what is needed, but they are willing to act as the agents for taking what is needed from others by engaging in aggressive activism and making radical demands.

Once the situation gets to the point that reality sets in and the journey towards utopia turns out to be a failure and facade, the organizers quickly disappear and leave you to your fate in a situation much worse than where you started.

If the organizers had any real heart and intelligence, they wouldn’t promise pipe dreams but undertake the real but difficult work of assisting people where they live by transforming their actual situation into a more livable one.

Decent people, even those who have means, are far more likely to assist others who demonstrate a willingness to help themselves and work hard to better their own situation where they are at than to give to others who are very willing just to take.

The faux compassion of the organizers is clear from the fact that they have not followed through with their promises and stayed to the end but have quietly abandoned what they created and left vulnerable people in even more dire straits.

I suspect the socialist activists have a similar mindset when they promote socialism or collectivism as an EASY way to revolutionize the social and cultural order. Such activism makes these individuals feel like morally superior heroes, and it all seems very straight-forward and easy in the abstract, but when all of the lack of thought, reality of life and impracticalities that were ill-considered converge, and the dream becomes a nightmare, the formerly vocal advocates will quietly melt away leaving a mess for others to clean up.

Do the best in your own situation. That is where God’s grace is to be found.

The early Church never tried to overthrow the Roman Empire and install a collective socialism in its place. They simply loved God and their neighbors close to them and worked hard to better themselves and those nearby, person by person.

This is not as glamorous as activism, nor does it attract worldly attention, but it is the little way that ultimately leaves fewer casualties and less of a disaster.

Radical dreams of overthrowing the evil Empire were not the leaven by which the Church functioned.


#811

I just heard about New Jersey - 500,000 illegals are there.


#812

Found the link to the article wherein the Department of Homeland Security estimates 500-600 criminals traveling with the caravan.


#813

We knew Mary and Joseph qualified because of govt persecution, they would have had no problems getting asylum.

I wish people would stop pretending economic migrants are refugees. .


#814

We know this because we have the rest of the story, but when they arrived in Egypt, who would know? My point is that it seems prudent to ask them.

Why do you wish that? Perhaps you have never had to suffer poverty, or inability to find work, so that you don’t appreciate that one can be an economic refugee.


#815

I’m fairly certain it was public knowledge that Herod was searching to kill first born children. They would have qualified for asylum with the rules we have in place today, no hindsight required.
.

So your argument is that we should offer refuge to anyone seeking a higher income? Think it through please, we can’t afford it.

I think we have a responsibility to provide aide but not to open our doors to all comers.


#816

I am fairly certain it is public knowledge that many of these people are fleeing intolerable living conditions. People already in the US would not want to raise their children in such conditions, but we seem to be unable to empathize with others that have less choices.

There is nothing I need or want bad enough to walk all the way to Columbia. That is very telling.

I am not sure it is feasible, but I sure can appreciate how and why they are refugees from poverty. These people are not getting their basic needs met.

I am mindful that there are also people trying to sneak in with the needy that are not a benefit to society. It would not be prudent to ignore the risks of admitting people that want to hurt us. But I think the vast majority of them are just desperate and tryng to grasp a better life.

People in the US forget that most of our ancestors came here under exact same circumstances.

It seems that the message of Lady Liberty no longer applies.


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