Cardinal Approves Blessing of Same-Sex Unions


#204

Suppose then that the couple were together, but agreed to be chaste. Should chastity be a requirement for such a blessing (like it already is for marriage in the sense that one must agree to be chaste in the context of marriage)?


#205

Although sometimes confusion is needed to help people breakthrough…as both Jesus and Pope Francis have taught us :hushed:.

Though even Cardinals sometimes cannot quite make it.


#206

Is chastity made an explicit condition of adoption, God-parentage, joining of guilds, apprenticeships, fealty to Lords and similar affine relationships?

We simply assume adults know what form of chastity is required of them for the given institution in question.

Sure, sexual abuse happens in adoption relationships, “rights de signor” abuses in fealty relationships, adultery amongst the married, incest in sibling relationships and so on.

As a civil union is not by definition a marriage nor a licence to sodomy it is not clear why it intrinsically requires such explicitation.

However, it may be useful to do so if CUs between Catholics are ever approved for public blessing ceremonies so they do not cause scandal to the weak perhaps.


#207

NO! He needs to be removed from his position ASAP!


#208

Is chastity made an explicit condition of adoption, God-parentage, joining of guilds, apprenticeships, fealty to Lords and similar affine relationships?

For God-parentage fidelity to the Church is, at least. adoptions, joining of guilds, apprenticeships, and fealty to Lords as far as I understand them don’t come with blessings. But for these others, some sorts of standards are expected of those involved in light of the relation they are pursuing.

We simply assume adults know what form of chastity is required of them for the given institution in question.

Not really, these days. Many adults believe that said institution can change their requirements; many are actively trying (albeit in vain), to get the Church to do it. It seems naive to presume that just because someone is asking for a blessing for a union, it means they know what is expected of them, much less agree with it.

As a civil union is not by definition a marriage nor a licence to sodomy it is not clear why it intrinsically requires such explicitation.

I might agree more if same sex unions were simply seen, culturally speaking, as simply another “affine relationship” as you call it. Nobody looks at adoption, guild membership, fealty to a lord, etc. as a license for sexual intimacy and a celebration of sexual intimacy between the parties involved. In our culture though, the couple got “married”; they didn’t simply decide to agree to a living arrangement and new tax status. Same thing happens with divorce and remarriage. A person gets divorced, and the marriage was valid. He “marries” another woman. We wouldn’t consider the second union a valid marriage, and yet even we will refer to it as “remarriage”, due to a culture where divorce and remarriage are actually a thing. The couple wants to be seen as married. Legally they are treated as such. Yet essentially, they are no more than some other relationship, right? But this couple might ask for a blessing as well. And they want to be given a blessing, not for what the relationship is in essence, but for the relationship as they see it. Not ok. A hypothetical gay couple asking for a blessing might be asking either for a blessing for an affine relationship that boils down to being there fore each other and living together, and the blessing might be for them to be committed to each other as partners/ friends (i.e., an affine relationship). Ok, maybe. Or, (and probably more likely) they may be asking for a blessing for something like a marriage… not so ok.


#209

No.

God is not the author of confusion. If there’s confusion, it’s not God’s work.

This position of “confusion needed order to break through” is not a Christian notion. Jesus never confused anyone. People may not have believed him, some of his sayings may have been hard, but none of them were confusing. If anything, Jesus was crystal clear, which is why people left him.

If there is confusion, you can be assured it’s not God’s work. It’s someone else’s, but not God’s.


#210

Agreed. Unless the “pastoral care” treats sin as sin, it is not pastoral, it is enabling.


#211

That “someone else” being the devil, of course. Confusion is a favorite tactic of his, as confusion over what is right lead can lead to doubt, and doing wrong.


#212

I am not sure you are saying anything new on the topic.


#213

Says who exactly? It a tired old meme unthinkingly repeated on the Net especially by
1Peter5 and associates. That doesn’t make it true.

That seems to be exactly what God wants of those he loves most at different points in their lives.

1 Cor proposes “confusion” as the opposite of “peace” rather than of “truth” or “clarity”.
I suggest it doesn’t quite mean what people want it to mean in this context.

God is certainly not a God of disorder … so if the Church approves blessing of some Civil Unions I wont be vocally objecting even if I don’t understand.


#214

Are you thinking of the people getting the blessing, or the union being blessed, as in the title? I ask because that is a difference of significance. I am also considering the need for this to be a public event. A blessing need not be public to be a blessing. Removing the idea of a ceremony would remove the largest part of a scandal.


#215

Even if this Cardinal did nothing but express his opinion that Same Sex Unions should receive blessings, I see him as working against the best interests of Church unity.


#216

Is anyone here saying anything new? What does it matter whether or not I am saying something particularly new? If it isn’t, it’s probably because your statements are not new either, and are vulnerable to responses you’ve heard before. I was asking you some questions. You responded. I responded to your response, saying why it seemed unsatisfactory and failed to address certain issues. I might be wrong or my reasoning may potentially be off, but if that is the problem, then say what and how it is. Saying it’s not new is not a real objection.


#217

Well said :love_you_gesture:


#219

God is all truth
Confusion ≠ truth.
Therefore God is NOT the author of confusion

Satan get’s the blame, NOT God.


#220

Says Scripture, your biased and incorrect reading notwithstanding.

What you call a tired old meme is the inspired Word of God.


#221

A liturgical blessing is not an expression of good wishes.
It’s not an expression of approval from this priest or that bishop according to his personal disposition towards something.

Bene-diction means to say good things about something.
It must recognize the truth and goodness in it’s object in the eyes of God, or call down an increase of grace in that truth and goodness.

You can connect the dots from there in this case.


#222

A very good answer.


#223

I prefer not to speak in absolutes re temporal matters nor limit the power of God to mature his flock.

Perhaps Germans are more spiritually mature than those in provincial middle America re things homosexual.


#224

Card Chaput http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/02/08/archbishop-chaput-blessing-ceremonies-for-same-sex-couples-is-not-permitted/

As he wrote
"there is no truth, no real mercy, and no authentic compassion in blessing a course of action that leads persons away from God"


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