Objectively, there is good though. That is why even people in mortal sin can receive a blessing. We just passed the Feast of St. Blase last week. Those who cannot receive communion can still receive that blessing.
The bold lettering above never speaks for the Catholic Priesthood. I hope the Cardinal is not a wolf in sheep’s clothing, for the sake of all Germans.
The first part is wise, the 2nd - in identifying acceptance as dependent on maturity of the flock - misses the mark IMHO.
As I previously posted
Card Chaput http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/02/08/archbishop-chaput-blessing-ceremonies-for-same-sex-couples-is-not-permitted/
"there is no truth, no real mercy, and no authentic compassion in blessing a course of action that leads persons away from God"
I am a gay man. I was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church. When I was younger, my family left the Roman Catholic Church, because it seemed as though the priorities of the Church were misplaced. I was raised in a non-denominational protestant church. I married a man who was raised in the Roman Catholic Church. When I first met him, he was the kind of person who said he was “born Catholic, will die Catholic and will raise his children to be Catholic.” When our relationship became more serious, we asked his priest if he would give us a blessing… not a marriage - we knew the Church would not recognize that - but a blessing. We were told that we were barking up the wrong tree. The sting of that rejection ran so deep that his Catholic identity was immediately shattered.
I know that many on here believe gay and lesbian persons are living in mortal sin. I wish you understood the depths of pain I’ve experienced in my life. Depression was a constant companion throughout college and into my early twenties. Suicide was constantly on my mind. I felt isolated, alone, afraid. Rejected by God, my church and my family. It felt as though there was no way out… until one day I lost my faith in God. Fortunately, God has found a way back into my life, but it has taken some work on both of our parts.
I’m not here to lecture anyone. I’m not part of the Roman Catholic Church. It can make it’s own decisions. I do wish, however, that the Church and the faithful would act with more compassion. Remembering that living, breathing people are involved… that those people are made in the divine image. Before throwing around judgments, remembering that people are suffering in ways that we can’t imagine.
Where is there good in people? While there is absolute good, that is God, there really is not absolute absence of good. Any person can have some good in them, will have. That is why the Church does not ever pronounce that a person is in Hell. This too is truth. We cannot say to uphold the moral absolutes of truth in the morality of what marriage is, and then deny them in the reality of what humanity is.
Maybe it is the fluid nature of these threads that when we start out condemning what needs to be condemned, we forget where we need to stop and recognize that which is also good. Going back to the beginning, we have a Cardinal that responded to a leading question, and then the National Conference which clarified how some sort of ceremony could not happen. AB Chaput jumped in, but I think he is not addressing the exact same question. We all know that blessing ceremonies for same sex unions are not permitted. That does not change that people in that union can still receive a blessing.
If they are sexually active
Do you know where that prohibition comes from?
Please read this article http://www.ncregister.com/blog/msgr-pope/how-to-respond-when-people-say-who-am-i-to-judge
The Church doesn’t teach that gays and lesbians are living in mortal sin. If someone is gay it isn’t a sin. If they commit homosexual acts, that’s the sin.
I am very sorry to hear this. I think that God doesn’t reject anyone. He loved us so much to give his only son so we could be forgiven of our sins. When we fall into sin, he wants us to return to him. We should also keep in mind that we reject him when we sin. When we sin we should repent, go to confession and make amends. God wants us to be with him, it is us who reject him.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
In the love and mutual care of one for the other. Best friends and siblings might claim the same, btw.
The sexual behaviour is of course a blight on the good.
c’mon pnewton, you saw the context. Where is the good in blessing same sex unions?
You didn’t address my answer, and you didn’t open the link I gave as explanation Cardinal Approves Blessing of Same-Sex Unions
Oh, that’s a different question. It strikes me as a very unwise act to do that.
Yes, The blight on the good comes about from their sexual behavior
Context? You quoted me. The poster I quoted, I really do not know if he was saying what he did to justify some sort of blessing, or to say it was not a good idea. It could be taken either way. As to your link, I saw it two or three days ago.
The context of my post was that there is a difference between blessing the union, in some sort of faux marriage type ceremony, and giving people in such a union a blessing, especially if it was done in private. I would even add, “especially if it were for strength for chastity.” So, as to context, I have been posting on this thread four days. I do not expect everyone that jumps on to read the whole thing, but understand that there is context here you might have missed.
Sure, there are several similar and related questions being addressed at once. I think that might be the primary reasons we are getting what looks to be conflicting answers, though not the only reason.
It’s that question that goes specifically to the topic.
Yes I think that is also what the Cardinal is suggesting too - surely few things are off the table in a private and sincere discernment process given favourable circumstances? This seems to be exactly the tailor=made procedure that FI is advocating re things irregular in AL. Canon Law cannot generically solve all issues…but individual pastoral discernment can go further.
We already do this with Communion for the remarried who still cohabit for the sake of the kids - they are allowed non public (ie anonymous) Communion.
The objective disorder of dubious cohabitation and a 2nd civil marriage is still engaged in yet they can receive Communion if scandal is minimised.
Hence there seems to be no intrinsic moral evil attached to the objectively irregular relationship - the issue is simply a prudential one of public perception.
I simply observed nothing of significant new substance to require a further response.
Apologies if that somehow upset you.
Well, when you and others get 1Cor translated more accurately do come back re exactly who understands better what those inspired words actually mean in English.
Confusion/disorder/enmity/war is quite different from confusion/falsehood/heresy isn’t it?
Yes, I’m fairly well versed in the Bible… I have a degree in religious studies I also know that the Bible has been used to support and condemn any number of positions throughout history. Adding to the complexity, the Bible was originally written in Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, translated into Latin and then translated again into the vernacular. Other conclusions can also be supported by scripture.
I’m not here to change your opinion… I am comfortable enough in my own skin and in my relationship to God that I don’t need you to come around to my side. I don’t even ask that you avoid judging me… just that before doing it you put yourself in my shoes.
How would you feel if tomorrow you woke up and instead of homosexual sexual activity being sinful, it was heterosexual sexual activity? How would you feel if you had the choice of marrying someone of the same-sex or abstaining from all sexual activity forever? Sexuality is an innate part of the human experience… If the shoe were on the other foot, I’m not sure the fine line between orientation and activity would matter.
After you’ve put yourself in my shoes, do what you will with it.
Thank you for your post - especially for the compassion you’ve shown toward my situation. I do understand what the Church teaches about compassion - but what it teaches and what it practices are sometimes worlds apart.
I believe you mean that homosexual acts are of grave matter and if committed with full freedom and knowledge that such is so then they are personally mortally sinful.