Cardinal, House speaker discuss immigration reform [CC]


#21

The “demons” I listed our legitimate sins. I would hope all here believe sin exists. I invite you and all to read the arguments in a political debate and see how often these sins are expressed. In addition to sin, I also believe in concupiscence and think that it is difficult to set aside ourselves in an issue and put others first. As to the definition of words, that is easy enough.

Immigration - The action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country:

reform - make changes in (something, typically a social, political, or economic institution or practice) in order to improve it.

The Catholic priests I know that are concerned about the need for immigration reform have expressed the need to improve such things as physical safety of human beings and the harm being done to families. This last week’s Gospel spoke of the need to reach out to those who are considered pariah and defy social boundaries.


#22

“Pariah?” Can’t seem to get away from demonizing those with opposing views. As brothers and sisters in Christ we definitely don’t want any harm coming to anybody. We pray for those in need and as a Christian and citizen of this country there’s nobody better than us American Catholics doing so. Which country do you think is the first one to act when disaster strikes? Nobody else can compares with our charity. We also believe in laws and hence you refused to answer any of the questions honestly I’ll be glad to assist you if you will indulge me:

The Church is against illegal immigration. According to CCC #2241 immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civil burdens. Hence coming here illegally is against the law and against the church.

Immigration reform advocates don’t talk about closing the border hence they are for open borders.

Immigration reform advocates never use the word “illegal” for obvious reasons and never talk about deportation for those here illegally, hence they are for amnesty. Again I’ll refer you to my initial post #14.

I understand your “feeling” for these people and believe me I am not a predator, a racist, bigot, etc. as immigration reformists attack those of us with opposition. I do not believe in name calling, pariah or any demeaning words attributed to us who have a difference of opinion. We would rather engage in reason and dialogue and contrary to what you have put out there we have nothing but compassion for those seeking a better life and would like to see their plight come to an end. But we have to put blame where blame is due. An example of this is Mexico which is one of the richest countries of the world who instead of finding solutions to their problems encourages their people to flee the country by providing them with guidelines to enter our country illegally and instruction as to how to respond if captured. Heaven forbid if they claim official abuse against our immigration officers which immigration reform advocates would immediately ceased in order to promote their agenda. Immigration officers treat these people with respect as they offer food and medical services when captured. All border crossers in need of medical attention are priority and taken to our finest hospitals at tax payer’s expense. Pregnant women take advantage of this loop-hole to include pregnant teenage girls. You ever heard of “anchor babies”? What other country does this? I pray that immigration reform advocates would point out the humanistic side of this controversy instead of demeaning anybody who opposes them. Go live outside the US and see what happens. And heaven forbid if you enter other country illegally because you’ll certainly need God for your dilemma.
:blessyou: :):slight_smile:


#23

I do not know if your actually read what I wrote or just did not understand. I called no one a pariah. If I did, you should have reported me. I used the word “so-called pariah” in reference to those in the time of Jesus like the Samaritans. It is a good word to describe the Jewish point of view toward Samaritans, as those here familiar with Scripture can affirm. I did not speak of illegal immigration. The reason why I did not is because I believe that the current law is in dire need of change. If the law is changed, then that which was illegal may no longer be illegal. The Church and I am opposed to illegal immigration. Yet there still remains the possibility for one to disobey a law that one considers to be unjust. This too is Catholic teaching.


#24

I totally understand where you’re coming from,ruly. Too many people demonize those with whom they disagree on the immigration issue. Good honest Catholics can disagree on immigration and still be good Catholics. Unfortunately it appears that not everybody believes that. So they demonize.

Ishii


#25

I believe my response was totally appropriate. I believe immigration is the topic for this tag. Anything else would be inappropriate. Bullying the opposition is a tactic used by people holding your beliefs. But let it be as it may and let us be reasonable in discussing this issue. Again I would refer you to CCC #2241 and there is no other country in the world that meets or surpasses those beliefs. Apparently nothing would stop immigration reform advocates until they get the desired results, amnesty and open borders. That’s the definition of “just” law. I don’t hear your side define this country as the most charitable country on the face of this earth. Immigration reform advocates refuse to acknowledge this and refuse to acknowledge the “unjust” immigration laws of other countries. It’s always the US fault for all the wrongs of this world. I don’t hear your side putting blame on other countries and with their richness, according to Catholic teaching, have the responsibility to help their people in need. I don’t hear your side bring the issue of the crime committed by this people: patdollard.com/2013/09/ice-released-2387-convicted-alien-sex-offenders-to-comply-with-supreme-court-ruling-authored-by-clinton-appointed-justice/#YfuTyWc3fhVyLBej.99;

Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily wnd.com/?pageId=39031#ixzz1faKU77ik

I don’t hear your side bring the issue of illegals taking advantage of entitlements:
losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/09/16/undocumented-la-county-parents-projected-to-receive-650m-in-welfare-benefits/.
I could go on listing the problems associated with illegal immigration but as a cradle Catholic I will be charitable for now.

I don’t hear your response to all the issues I have put forth and instead are very selective as to what you want to focus on. I believe I have focused on the issue at hand and beg for your forgiveness if you feel I’m out of line. May the Lord be our guide in resolving this very delicate issue.
:blessyou: :):slight_smile:


#26

My one exception to your post was the idea I was demonizing anyone. That simply is not true. My post is still there for a re-reading.

I believe immigration is the topic for this tag. Anything else would be inappropriate. Bullying the opposition is a tactic used by people holding your beliefs. But let it be as it may and let us be reasonable in discussing this issue. …I don’t hear your side define this country as the most charitable country on the face of this earth.

I believe this is an area where your err in assumption. You lump me into a “side”. I have no side, as if there are only two sides to this issue. As complex as immigration is, I can imagine dozens of “sides.” For my part, I have a basic view of people as a resource, not a problem or a burden. People plus capital plus natural resources equals production, something our country has been losing steadily over the years.

Immigration reform advocates refuse to acknowledge this and refuse to acknowledge the “unjust” immigration laws of other countries. It’s always the US fault for all the wrongs of this world. I don’t hear your side putting blame on other countries and with their richness, according to Catholic teaching, have the responsibility to help their people in need. I don’t hear your side bring the issue of the crime committed by this people:

I don’t hear your response to all the issues

I have no objection to responding.

  1. I read the WND who I have notoriously found unreliable in the past and note they did not provide one single referencing link. Yet, without a doubt illegal aliens do kill people in drunk driving accidents, as do teenagers, women, lawyers and pretty much any other class of people one can thing of. The do not kill them because they are here illegal, or are women, lawyers, etc., they kill because they are drinking and driving.

Let me say this is not the only traffic issue. Illegal aliens also cost everyone in increased coverage for lack of insurance, no license and no registration. Now one solution is to deport them all, if that could be done. Another is to allow them all to register here legally so they can get insurance, registration and a license.

2, As to Pat Dollard, I would view anyone who would say we needed to be ready for armed insurrection on the Election of Obama about as dubiously as I would Mexican drug cartels on this issue. That not withstanding, errors by ICE, to me, highlight the need for reform. We do not need an underground population. What I do not get is why the faults of the immigration system are being presented as a reason to keep it just like it is.

  1. As to taking advantage of entitlements. Again, this should not be allowable. However, I sense in all of these on piece of vital information that is missing and one logical disconnect. If these abuses and crimes indicate the population from which these are committed should not be here, then none of us should stay and we should shut the whole mess down. The more critical question should be whether (1) immigrants abuse entitlements, drink and drive or commit sex offenses at a rate greater than the general population; and (2) do illegal immigrants abuse entitlements, drink and drive or commit sex offenses at a rate greater than the general population.

If the latter is true, wouldn’t it be prudent that they are registered?


#27

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.