Cardinal Law


#1

I’m not sure where to post this, but I cannot believe…

Day 4: Monday, April 11, 5 p.m. For the Chapters of the Patriarchal Basilicas. The concelebration will be presided by Cardinal Bernard Francis Law, archbishop emeritus of Boston and archpriest of the Patriarchal Basilica of St Mary Major.

Someone had suggested for Law to have voluntered to serve as a small Parrish Priest.

I do not agree. Law should not be allowed to serve anywhere where he would be responsible for the well being of children—He is definitely not capable in that capacity.

Personally, the monastary would be too good for him—sackcloth and ashes is too good for him.

To have him publically honored? We know the Catholic Church has made mistakes, all society did (otherwise we wouldn’t need Megan’s Law), but to flaunt it in the face of victims?? This is beyond stupid. The only negative thing I could even think of saying about our beloved Holy Father is that he protected Law. (Law’s crime was he protected abusers or even worse just shoved them under the rug–or maybe sent disability checks to nude gay resorts?)

And if he felt any remorse, wouldn’t he refuse the limelight? It the Church is stupid enough to allow this, shouldn’t he have had the decency to refuse the honor???

(Oh well, I guess there won’t be many Boston (or other US) parishes making the Cardinal’s Appeal goals again this year.)


#2

Suz,

There is already a Catholic hate-fest going on regarding this topic in the Water Cooler forum.


#3

Suz,

Isn’t in you who posted this thread?

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=45542

I would ask you to consider
**

First Day (Good Friday)

**

[size=2]Today bring to me

**"ALL MANKIND, ESPECIALLY ALL SINNERS **

(1210) **“Today, bring Me to all mankind, especially all sinners, and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. In this way you will console Me in the bitter grief into which the loss of souls plunges Me.” **[/size]

Don’t you think it’s time for mercy here???


#4

Everytime we say the our Father we say forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE:nope: The Holy Father forgave the man who tried to kill him.Hate the sin love the sinner,remember.There is a link on spiritual warfare in my sig.When people do and say rotten things it is right to abhore the ACTS and get angry with the acts.But what right do we have to deny forgiveness?From what I understand he apologiesd and has to live with himself,now.


#5

[quote=kmktexas]Suz,

There is already a Catholic hate-fest going on regarding this topic in the Water Cooler forum.
[/quote]

Take your pick, there’s another either on the John Paul II thread or the Chair of Peter thread. That one deals with SNAP protesting that Cardinal Law is saying mass during the nine day mourning period.

Lisa N


#6

[quote=Lisa N]Take your pick, there’s another either on the John Paul II thread or the Chair of Peter thread. That one deals with SNAP protesting that Cardinal Law is saying mass during the nine day mourning period.

Lisa N
[/quote]

It is always surprisng to me that the self righteous and without sin myself groups are so well informed about everything but their own church.

The service for the pope is not about Cardinal Law it is about the pope The 9 masses are said, one each at the 9 great churches of Rome. The church where Cardinal Law is in residence is one of those basilicas.


#7

I do understand all your points, and am saddened by the reaction to me for bringing this up.

Don’t you think it’s time for mercy here???

Mercy? Where is the mercy for the victims who must watch this man be honored in such a way? Why was he given such a prestigeous assignment after the damage his actions caused the Church? I see beautiful and devout priests ridiculed and verbally abused because of the coverup----many do not trust any priest. Every faithful Catholic suffers because of this situation—more the coverup and reassignment than any other aspect, and Cardinal Law was the number 1 offender there.

The service for the pope is not about Cardinal Law it is about the pope The 9 masses are said, one each at the 9 great churches of Rome. The church where Cardinal Law is in residence is one of those basilicas

No the service is not about Cardinal Law, but the fact that he is allowed to celebrate it, and the fact that he accepted is. It is as if nothing happened.

Mercy? Is he above the Law? Forgiveness means leaving it to God, but justice demands atonement, and retribution. He was protected from the law, and accepting responsibility for what he had done.

Our beloved Holy Father forgave his would be assassin–but the man was in jail.


#8

[quote=Lisa4Catholics] From what I understand he apologiesd and has to live with himself,now.
[/quote]

Forgiveness does not mean to say “It’s OK” There must be sorrow, and atonement, not a prestegious assignment, and protection from justice.


#9

There are many worse Cardinals out there that have not been punished, yet. Cardinal Law seems to be a scapegoat. I do not agree with every action he took, but there are worse ones still in charge. The difference is the ones still not removed are left wing and will vote in the conclave.


#10

[quote=Mysty101]I do understand all your points, and am saddened by the reaction to me for bringing this up…
[/quote]

Why? Because not everyone agrees that Cardinal Law deserves sackcloth and ashes? So far you haven’t made much of a case.

[quote=Mysty101]Mercy? Where is the mercy for the victims who must watch this man be honored in such a way? Why was he given such a prestigeous assignment after the damage his actions caused the Church? I see beautiful and devout priests ridiculed and verbally abused because of the coverup----many do not trust any priest. Every faithful Catholic suffers because of this situation—more the coverup and reassignment than any other aspect, and Cardinal Law was the number 1 offender there…
[/quote]

That is your opinion. By your logic, actually the number 1 offender would be the Pope himself. After all, neither ENGAGED in the abuse, both were unable to eradicate it, and the Pope after all is the head of our Church. It’s his fault right? The buck stops there.

I think that the blame lies first with the offending priests and their sick and twisted minds. That the story broke on Cardinal Law’s watch seems to be your major talking point. Cardinal Law was unfortunately one of a number of church officials who badly misjudged this problem and dealt with it ineffectively. The policy of treating and reassigning offending priests was unfortunately a WORLDWIDE phenomenon. We had the same issue here in Oregon and I don’t believe Cardinal Law was involved. Our archdiocese is bankrupt. Cardinal Law’s fault right?

[quote=Mysty101]No the service is not about Cardinal Law, but the fact that he is allowed to celebrate it, and the fact that he accepted is. It is as if nothing happened…
[/quote]

No I think Cardinal Law has suffered greatly. He is certainly not held in the same esteem. It is NOT as if nothing happened. Were that the case Law might well be one of the frontrunners for the next Pope. As a result of his bad handling of the scandal he has been demoted, demoralized and demonized. What is enough?

[quote=Mysty101]Mercy? Is he above the Law? Forgiveness means leaving it to God, but justice demands atonement, and retribution. He was protected from the law, and accepting responsibility for what he had done.

Our beloved Holy Father forgave his would be assassin–but the man was in jail.
[/quote]

He was not protected from the law. Apparently per Massachusetts statute he didn’t BREAK any laws. We might find this a failing of the state’s legal system but it’s not as if he broke a law with impunity and was not prosecuted. Those who actually broke the laws were prosecuted and many were jailed. Would you suggest that if one of my employees robbed a bank, I should be jailed for not properly supervising him?

Cardinal Law will have to answer to a much higher authority than the State of Massachusetts. I am sure he is well aware of his failings.

Lisa N


#11

I see our perspective on this situation is totally different. Your world is a nice place to be.

How is the Cardinal’s appeal going in your parish?

I distribute Holy Communion at a local hospital. You would not believe the attitude of some Catholics since this scandal broke.


#12

[quote=Mysty101]I see our perspective on this situation is totally different. Your world is a nice place to be.
[/quote]

It is. I am not consumed with anger or desires for retribution. It sounds like you are very unhappy and this is eating you up. That’s very sad.

[quote=Mysty101]How is the Cardinal’s appeal going in your parish?.
[/quote]

Appeal? Appeal for what? I haven’t ever heard his name mentioned in my parish but understand this may be a local issue for you. It seems VERY far away for me here on the west coast.

[quote=Mysty101]I distribute Holy Communion at a local hospital. You would not believe the attitude of some Catholics since this scandal broke.
[/quote]

And it sounds like you feed the flames. I am not sure how that helps the situation.

As to our diocese, quite honestly I have heard nothing but appreciation for our bishop and parish priests who have tried very hard to apologize, even though they were not involved. Our diocese paid out millions and finally declared bankruptcy. I have to tell you the sympathy is shifting AGAINST the people bringing complaints. Many are tired of hearing about them. What was originally a horrible situation that was being addressed has turned into money grubbing lawyers trolling for possible victims, false charges, and millions that could be helping the poor going into a bunch of attorneys’ pockets.

Obviously your situation and attitude are different.

Lisa N


#13

BTW The Cardinal’s Appeal is the Annual fund raising effort for the Diosean charities—I thought all US dioceses had a similar appeal, but maybe not.

And another thing, your attitude toward me is not too nice, maybe you are the one who is so unhappy?—I am sad for those who must see this man honored. I am not unhappy.


#14

PS I guess there may be some along for a free lunch, and I certainly agree that money is not the answer—I really do not know what is.

But to speak of the victims in general in the manner which you have spoken, is uncharitable at best, and possibly sinful.


#15

I have been defending the theology of the Catholic Church in street debates with atheists, communists, Protestants, Wiccas, witchdoctors, and anything else successfully for a number of years.

I am unable to defend the decision of the Vatican allowing Cardinal Bernard Law to openly say a prestigious Mass surrounding the demise of a great man and a great Pope.

I now simply stand silent unable to respond as the Boston area enemies of the Church gloat and hiss over this decision of the Vatican. One of the Boston sex abuse victims I know cried.

I always pray for the forgiveness of sins, and I pray for justice; they shouldn’t be mutually exclusive. Cardinal Bernard Law has no business being a Priest.


#16

Don’t condemn a man until you walk a mile in his shoes.

Maybe his exulted position is his cross to bear. I’m sure he is aware of the damage he did in his last position.

You do not have all the information necessary to come to your conclusions as to why Cardinal Law did what he did.

As a Christian it is your duty to forgive the person.


#17

Again–this is not about forgiveness. It is about honoring someone who has allowed so much abuse. The mere mention of his name ignites many flames.

I do not agree with defrocking, but I do think Law should serve in a publically non-visible position.


#18

I have been defending the theology of the Catholic Church in street debates with atheists, communists, Protestants, Wiccas, witchdoctors, and anything else successfully for a number of years.

Excellent. Keep it up!!

Cardinal Bernard Law has no business being a Priest.

This is not your judgement to make. You have no window to look into another man’s soul.


#19

Cardinal Law was investigated by the civil authorities and not prosecuted. This in a climate where Catholic clergy are presumed guilty until proven innocent. So, from a civil standpoint, his biggest crime may have been poor judgement and poor managerial skills.

The Church investigated the situation in Boston and initially refused his resignation as Archbishop for Boston. When he finally did resign he spent time in seclusion and then was given a post in Italy - far removed from his diocese and with much less prestige or honor than he previously enjoyed.

Suz and the SNAP gang are sure that they know this man’s soul better than his Church superiors. In thier minds he is evil and unworthy. We have no idea of the depth of his contrition. Don’t forget that many of our most revered Saints were once manifest sinners. Do the names St. Paul or St. Augustine ring any bells? :smiley:

I am not a big Cardinal Law fan athough I do pray for him. However, the Church has much bigger problems and much worse enemies than Cardinal Law and even the priestly sexual abuse “crisis”. Attacking him at this point in time is a way to throw mud at our Church when we should be focussing on the holy life of our beloved Pope. Leave us alone to mourn his death and celebrate his life. You can come back and scapegoat some more later.

By the way, I hope the Diocisan Service Appeal (what they call it here) is raising less money this year. I personally reduced my contribution to 1/20th of my last one. Many people I know have either reduced theirs or not contributed this time. Not one of them cites the sex abuse problem as a reason to give less money to the diocese. It’s more a reaction to poor financial management, the 2004 election cycle and the thundering silence from the chancery regarding life issues.


#20

Kristine (kmktexas) I appreciated your post very much and agree in all respects. FWIW I am a bit confused by the ‘appeal.’ Our diocese had an appeal but they listed very specific things it would be used for including Catholic education, support for retired religious, and a presence on college campuses among others. I didn’t get the impression any of the money would be funding settlements from the lawsuits. Maybe each diocese is different?

Lisa N


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