Cardinal Martini says Catholic Church "200 years behind"


#1

cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/09/02/catholic-church-martini.html


#2

I feel really sorry for anyone who feels this way. The encyclical of Pope Paul VI “Humanae Vitae” (hope spelling is correct) proves the Church is not “behind the times” Much of what was in this document has proved to be quite prophetic.


#3

I find it amazing to see anyone believe the church is behind the times. When I use the quote from the fifties where Arch Bishop Fulton Sheen summed up church teaching on a particular subject as “The Power of Life and Death is a power reserved to God and to God alone” and how that singular quote can sum up the church’s teaching for all time on the subject. It covers everything in the past and future. It will never change. :slight_smile:


#4

:thumbsup:


#5

Seeing as he has only just passed away, it wouldn’t hurt to say a prayer or two for the repose of Cardinal Martini’s soul.

Re his *purported comments on scandals , one is left to surmise that he is actually the one who is "behind’,or at the very least not abreast of all the progress made in the good ol’ USA in this regard, as we learn from Cardinal Dolan’s comments in the statement issued by the USCCB earlier this year.

usccb.org/news/2012/12-059.cfm

  • Something I would personally keep in mind for now is that while CBC can be fairly reputable, their story is probably second-hand. I can’t find the name of the actual reporter who is supposed to have conducted that final interview.

However true it would seem that Cardinal Martini may have been outspoken in a direction at times questionable in the past, it is also true that once someone has passed away, a reporter/journalist could basically claim, according to that final interview conducted just prior to the death, that Cardinal Martini said practically anything , without fear of him (the deceased) ever having the chance to confirm or deny it.

It looks like someone made a typo : Each time we celebrate the Mass, wouldn’t we be a full 2,000 years behind instead of 200 ?

:slight_smile:

(praying a decade for Cardinal Martini as this is posted :thumbsup: )


#6

I find it fascinating how the CAF opinion on the clergy changes in response to whether said clergy agrees with the preformed CAF opinion! :rotfl:

I guess it would never occur to anyone here to think that perhaps the good Cardinal's prayer, study and reflection may have led him to his conclusions? That he might have known a bit more about Church doctrine and history than a bunch of us Internet posters?

We were just informed the other day how we all must not condemn Fr Groshcel blaming victims of sexual abuse but we're all ready to bash the Cardinal because he dares to suggest something out of our comfort zone?


#7

[quote="Seeker1961, post:6, topic:297281"]
I find it fascinating how the CAF opinion on the clergy changes in response to whether said clergy agrees with the preformed CAF opinion! :rotfl:

I guess it would never occur to anyone here to think that perhaps the good Cardinal's prayer, study and reflection may have led him to his conclusions? That he might have known a bit more about Church doctrine and history than a bunch of us Internet posters?

We were just informed the other day how we all must not condemn Fr Groshcel blaming victims of sexual abuse but we're all ready to bash the Cardinal because he dares to suggest something out of our comfort zone?

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#8

[quote="Seeker1961, post:6, topic:297281"]
I guess it would never occur to anyone here to think that perhaps the good Cardinal's prayer, study and reflection may have led him to his conclusions?

[/quote]

Actually, this was my first thought. I also read where he was one of those considered as a possible papal candidate. So we accept that the Holy Spirit is leading a Church in the right direction, a different direction that this Cardinal thinks best, and this person has his reasons for his beliefs.


#9

According to this BBC news article It would appear that Cardinal Martini's last interview was given to a fellow Jesuit priest -

Cardinal Martini gave his last interview to a fellow Jesuit priest, Georg Sporschill, and to a journalist at the beginning of August when he knew his death was approaching.

and the journalist might've been Naomi O'Leary.

Incidentally,last time I checked, the *dissolubility of marriage *and *promotion of contraception * happen to be "in" the comfort zone - not out of it.


#10

[quote="Seeker1961, post:6, topic:297281"]
I find it fascinating how the CAF opinion on the clergy changes in response to whether said clergy agrees with the preformed CAF opinion! :rotfl:

I guess it would never occur to anyone here to think that perhaps the good Cardinal's prayer, study and reflection may have led him to his conclusions? That he might have known a bit more about Church doctrine and history than a bunch of us Internet posters?

We were just informed the other day how we all must not condemn Fr Groshcel blaming victims of sexual abuse but we're all ready to bash the Cardinal because he dares to suggest something out of our comfort zone?

[/quote]

Fr Groshcel is well known and well respected for good reason. I think that he is likely a living saint. That is why when he speaks in error one time and gives a sincere apology we should of course give him the benefit of the doubt and not condemn him. That would be the logical thing to do. I think if most of us spoke publicy as often as he does we would too find ourselves in hot water from time to time.


#11

[quote="pnewton, post:8, topic:297281"]
Actually, this was my first thought. I also read where he was one of those considered as a possible papal candidate. So we accept that the Holy Spirit is leading a Church in the right direction, a different direction that this Cardinal thinks best, and this person has his reasons for his beliefs.

[/quote]

So true yet so many people here are so legalistic and judgemental here! Where is love in all this? I love going to Mass but the Catholics on here are a real turn-off. This is not a way to bring people to the Catholic faith!


#12

Maybe it’s because people here want to believe that Fr was right and it was those terrible seducers that caused the whole pedophile scandal? Then we don’t have to blame the Church or the Bishops or Priests and all that nastiness can be someone else’s fault. I admit, it sounds nice to let the Church off the hook for that evil, doesn’t it?

But we don’t want to believe that the Cardinal might be right about divorce, marriage or birth control and the idea Church might need to change so we discount what he said.


#13

[quote="Seeker1961, post:12, topic:297281"]
Maybe it's because people here want to believe that Fr was right and it was those terrible seducers that caused the whole pedophile scandal? Then we don't have to blame the Church or the Bishops or Priests and all that nastiness can be someone else's fault. I admit, it sounds nice to let the Church off the hook for that evil, doesn't it?

But we don't want to believe that the Cardinal might be right about divorce, marriage or birth control and the idea Church might need to change so we discount what he said.

[/quote]

I haven't seen anyone on here blaming the victims. I also haven't seen anyone agreeing with the Father's regretable statement, only defending his character. However, on an internet forum anyone can show up. :shrug:

As far as the Cardinal goes I think that we need more than this article to judge or fully understand what it is that he actually said or thought. Faithful Catholics aren't going to suddenly disagree with the Church based on this information.


#14

[quote="Seeker1961, post:6, topic:297281"]
I find it fascinating how the CAF opinion on the clergy changes in response to whether said clergy agrees with the preformed CAF opinion! :rotfl:

I guess it would never occur to anyone here to think that perhaps the good Cardinal's prayer, study and reflection may have led him to his conclusions? That he might have known a bit more about Church doctrine and history than a bunch of us Internet posters?

We were just informed the other day how we all must not condemn Fr Groshcel blaming victims of sexual abuse but we're all ready to bash the Cardinal because he dares to suggest something out of our comfort zone?

[/quote]

I find a lot of CAF opinion facinating. There is another thread on Cardinal Martini. Perhaps they could be combined?


#15

[quote="Seeker1961, post:6, topic:297281"]
I find it fascinating how the CAF opinion on the clergy changes in response to whether said clergy agrees with the preformed CAF opinion! :rotfl:

I guess it would never occur to anyone here to think that perhaps the good Cardinal's prayer, study and reflection may have led him to his conclusions? That he might have known a bit more about Church doctrine and history than a bunch of us Internet posters?

We were just informed the other day how we all must not condemn Fr Groshcel blaming victims of sexual abuse but we're all ready to bash the Cardinal because he dares to suggest something out of our comfort zone?

[/quote]

It's not about being outside our comfort zone. It's about being outside the bounds of the morally acceptable. Just because he is a bishop doesn't mean he can't be dead wrong on some, or even most topics. Many priests and bishops have fallen into heresy in the past (and outnumbered the faithful clergy). Let's not pretend that it can't happen today.


#16

[quote="timwatt, post:1, topic:297281"]
cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/09/02/catholic-church-martini.html

[/quote]

I think G.K. Chesterton said it best with the following quote:

"Christianity is always out of fashion because it is always sane; and all fashions are mild insanities. When Italy is mad on art the Church seems too Puritanical when England is mad on Puritanism the Church seems too artistic. When you quarrel with us now you class us with kingship and despotism; but when you quarrelled with us first it was because we would not accept the divine despotism of Henry VIII. The Church always seems to be behind the times, when it is really beyond the times; it is waiting till the last fad shall have seen its last summer. It keeps the key of a permanent virtue."

We have to remember that Jesus went against ALL of the norms for Jewish culture in his time.


#17

[quote="LucyLight, post:13, topic:297281"]
I haven't seen anyone on here blaming the victims. I also haven't seen anyone agreeing with the Father's regretable statement, only defending his character. However, on an internet forum anyone can show up. :shrug:

As far as the Cardinal goes I think that we need more than this article to judge or fully understand what it is that he actually said or thought. Faithful Catholics aren't going to suddenly disagree with the Church based on this information.

[/quote]

I don't know if people agree with the good Father or not, I just posited a theory as to why he has been given more latitude here than what the Cardinal is getting. Even if people did agree with him, I doubt they'd put it I writing even with a pseudonym.


#18

[quote="Seeker1961, post:17, topic:297281"]
I don't know if people agree with the good Father or not, I just posited a theory as to why he has been given more latitude here than what the Cardinal is getting. Even if people did agree with him, I doubt they'd put it I writing even with a pseudonym.

[/quote]

Because he apologized right away and said he regretted his statement. The Cardinal on the other hand, passed away before the article ( if I'm understanding this correctly). Hopefully, there will be more information than this article so we can better understand the Cardinal.


#19

[quote="LucyLight, post:18, topic:297281"]
Because he apologized right away and said he regretted his statement. The Cardinal on the other hand, passed away before the article ( if I'm understanding this correctly). Hopefully, there will be more information than this article so we can better understand the Cardinal.

[/quote]

He apologized after the outrage began....so, how do we know that it wasn't a media apology? We've certainly all seen plenty of those. Again, we ascribe the most charitable motives to him, but we don't to the Cardinal.


#20

[quote="Michelle9, post:11, topic:297281"]
This is not a way to bring people to the Catholic faith!

[/quote]

CAF does not present the best side of Catholicism- that is certainly true.

I really can't imagine anyone considering the Church being struck by the Christian lovethey find on much of CAF fodder- where "admonish the sinner" is the most highly prized corporal act of mercy, and "fraternal correction" is so beloved a duty.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.