Carley Firoina's Victory Speech Hits Barbara Boxer for When She "Dressed Down that General"

hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/06/carly-fiorinas-victory-speech-hits.html

"Carly Fiorina in her speech after winning the GOP U.S. Senate Nomination in California, where she hit Sen. Barbara Boxer for when she “dressed down that General” – referring to Brigadier General Michael Walsh during a Senate Hearing.

The clip of Boxer telling the General to call her “Senator” instead of “Ma’am” is included in this video."

Ms. Fiorina who was one of several successful candidates in yesterday’s primaries, was endorsed by that “political know-nothing” Sarah Palin. It seems that Ms. Palin’s endorsements carried considerable weight. But what do I know? After all, the Dems think she’s a joke and would love to see her and her Tea Party nutjobs influence the dull 'ole GOP. Right?

Oh, I think I like this woman & I'm so glad she addressed that incident. I still wince when I see the footage of her talking down to the General. It is physically painful. I'm embarrassed to say I just found out about Firoina so I have I lot to learn before she gets my support, but the Susan B. Anthony List endorses her. Thanks for posting this!

**]Respect is earned, not stolen by corrupt & selfish people!

Any politician who supports murdering innocent babies by abortion & who has never for one minute put his or her pitiful life on the line defending their great country has earned nothing, especially not respect.

People are fed up with the privileged, intellectual elites like Obama, Boxer, Pelosi, Reid, et. al.....who have sacrificed nothing & who steal from those who toil daily to survive!

Ms. Boxer revealed her despicable hypocrisy when she placed her unearned & undeserved political position above that of a General Officer in the Army who was willing to die for her, despite her hypocrisy!

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you." (JN 15:12-14)**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

[quote="Mark77, post:3, topic:201363"]

People are fed up with the privileged, intellectual elites like Obama, Boxer, Pelosi, Reid, et. al.....who have sacrificed nothing & who steal from those who toil daily to survive!

[/quote]

Wrong! You are saying that our elected officials do not toil. Saying "et al" includes both liberals and conservatives. You ought to work in a Congressman's office to see how much work they do handling constituents' requests, facilitating the solutions to constituents' problems, and working on legislation.

Is there something wrong with being an intellectual? I don't understand you - do you see some advantage to our nation in having a dumbed-down populace?

Ms. Boxer revealed her despicable hypocrisy when she placed her unearned & undeserved political position above that of a General Officer in the Army who was willing to die for her, despite her hypocrisy!

Undeserved political position? You are saying that she was not legitimately elected. If so, can you provide some links to prove that?

BTW, a Congressman outranks any general officer. The U.S. has a civilian government at the top, not a junta. Sheesh!

How do you know that the general was prepared to die for her?? :confused:

I'm actually glad that she confronted the general. Many times the civilians give too much deference to them.

She is a United States senator, after all.

[quote="Beau_Ouiville, post:5, topic:201363"]
I'm actually glad that she confronted the general. Many times the civilians give too much deference to them.

She is a United States senator, after all.

[/quote]

That escapes a lot of conservatives who seem to be unaware that the civilian government is on top. A general can't be confirmed without the consent of the Senate. In the U.S., generals cannot say who or who may not run for Congress.

America is NOT "Seven Days in May."

[quote="Beau_Ouiville, post:5, topic:201363"]
I'm actually glad that she confronted the general. Many times the civilians give too much deference to them.

She is a United States senator, after all.

[/quote]

Except that the terms "sir" and "ma'am" are the proper military terms of courtesy for civilians. What Boxer did was a needless, arrogant show of ego and attempted one-upmanship. The general was completely in the right and in no way needed to be "confronted," least of all on national TV. She should lose the election on this alone.

[quote="Mattapoisett64, post:7, topic:201363"]
Except that the terms "sir" and "ma'am" are the proper military terms of courtesy for civilians.

[/quote]

Congressmen are addressed as Senator or Represntative. Sorry.

The general was completely in the right

No. Look up how military officers and Congressmen are to be addressed.

She should lose the election on this alone.

For not be obsequious to a man whom she outranks?

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:4, topic:201363"]
Wrong! You are saying that our elected officials do not toil. Saying "et al" includes both liberals and conservatives. You ought to work in a Congressman's office to see how much work they do handling constituents' requests, facilitating the solutions to constituents' problems, and working on legislation.

Is there something wrong with being an intellectual? I don't understand you - do you see some advantage to our nation in having a dumbed-down populace?

Undeserved political position? You are saying that she was not legitimately elected. If so, can you provide some links to prove that?

BTW, a Congressman outranks any general officer. The U.S. has a civilian government at the top, not a junta. Sheesh!

How do you know that the general was prepared to die for her?? :confused:

[/quote]

Please explain what is so offensive about being called ma'am? According to the video I watched Ms. Boxer appeared to take offense at being called ma'am.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:8, topic:201363"]

No. Look up how military officers and Congressmen are to be addressed.

[/quote]

I did. The term "ma'am" is perfectly appropriate for addressing a CIVILIAN (which Boxer is) or a military superior. In fact it's suggested in order to avoid the continuous repetition of titles. It's customary to address them by title in the first communication, then as "ma'am" or "sir" after that.

Sen. Boxer could have achieved the same result by saying to the General that she prefers to be addressed by her formal title. There is a tactful and graceful way to communicate in a public setting, then there is the disrespectful way.

For not be obsequious to a man whom she outranks?

Sen Boxer is a CIVILIAN, a member of the government, but holds no military rank. Look it up... see if you can find "Senator" in any of the armed forces ranking systems.

Because she is a member of Government, she is accorded privilege and respect as though she was of higher rank. That would include such things as salutes and addressing as "Senator," then afterwards, "ma'am". But she doesn't "outrank" the General.

Even the Commander in Chief holds no official military rank, that's why Pres. Clinton was not charged under a UCMJ article for his offenses while in that position. There is a reason their misdeeds are handled in the civilian court system... they are CIVILIANS.

[quote="Sabda, post:9, topic:201363"]
Please explain what is so offensive about being called ma'am? According to the video I watched Ms. Boxer appeared to take offense at being called ma'am.

[/quote]

There is nothing offensive about it. It was an opportunity to score cheap political points by flogging someone in public you know won't fight back because he does honor his position.

[quote="Sabda, post:9, topic:201363"]
Please explain what is so offensive about being called ma'am? According to the video I watched Ms. Boxer appeared to take offense at being called ma'am.

[/quote]

She is a U.S. Senator and is owed some deference. Yeah, she wouldn't have died if he called her "Chickie" or "Babe" or "Hon," but the proprieties ought to be observed.

[quote="DOShea, post:10, topic:201363"]

Because she is a member of Government, she is accorded privilege and respect as though she was of higher rank. That would include such things as salutes and addressing as "Senator," then afterwards, "ma'am". But she doesn't "outrank" the General.

[/quote]

Read Seven Days in May. Some flag rank military officers would have agreed with you.

Even the Commander in Chief holds no official military rank, that's why Pres. Clinton was not charged under a UCMJ article for his offenses while in that position. There is a reason their misdeeds are handled in the civilian court system... they are CIVILIANS.

And, as the President is only the Commander-In-Chief, he has to defer to his generals? I do honestly think that he is the one who gives military people their orders, that they have to obey him, NOT the other way round.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:12, topic:201363"]
She is a U.S. Senator and is owed some deference. Yeah, she wouldn't have died if he called her "Chickie" or "Babe" or "Hon," but the proprieties ought to be observed.

[/quote]

Considering the rampant corruption in all three branches, ma'am is far more honorable than senator.

By the way, those three names you used are not comparable to "ma'am".

[quote="Mattapoisett64, post:7, topic:201363"]
Except that the terms "sir" and "ma'am" are the proper military terms of courtesy for civilians. What Boxer did was a needless, arrogant show of ego and attempted one-upmanship. The general was completely in the right and in no way needed to be "confronted," least of all on national TV. She should lose the election on this alone.

[/quote]

I have listened to that clip several times, and Barbara Boxer comes off as arrogant! She was trying to belittle the Officer.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:12, topic:201363"]
She is a U.S. Senator and is owed some deference. Yeah, she wouldn't have died if he called her "Chickie" or "Babe" or "Hon," but the proprieties ought to be observed.

[/quote]

I don't understand how you can think being called ma'am is disrespectful. At one time that is what most gentlemen where taught to call a woman. Chickie, babe, or hon would be considered disresepectful, in that setting. Honestly, any man calling me babe or chickie should consider himself lucky for not getting slapped across the face. Hon, on the other hand is not disrespectful in the circumstances that I have seen it used.

The general did give her deference by referring to her as ma'am, which is very respectful. How do we know that the general did not refer to her as Senator Boxer at the very beginning of that exchange?

BTW, ma'am is the equivalent of sir. The President is referred to as sir is he not?

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:4, topic:201363"]
BTW, a Congressman outranks any general officer. The U.S. has a civilian government at the top, not a junta. Sheesh!

[/quote]

Rich....You are mistaken about a Congressman's position.

President (Civ)
Sec Def (Civ)

Please note that the Vice President is NOT in the Chain of Command.

As another poster stated Congressman hold a position of respect as do all elected officials, no more then any other elected official they are NOT in our chain of command.

As for the salutation used the General could have used either the Salutation Senator or Ma'am, but since the Senator asked him to use Senator that is what he should defer to. She was not wrong in requesting this, however I think the issue is HOW she said it.

For example a US Navy Officer with a rank of Commander or below, that is also the Captain of a ship, which is a rank, can also be called Skipper.

I was on a ship were the Captain, who was a Commander, did NOT want to be called skipper and he let everyone know this in no uncertain terms. That being said during the crossing the line ceremony he was dressed up by the senior SHELLBACK on the ship, as he was a WOG, to look like the Skipper with an Ensign dressed up as his Little Buddy and the salty Lieutenant Shellback (ME) had them sing the tune from Gilligan's Island.....

He was a good sport......during this very old Naval tradition.......

Any way...... The General could have avoided the whole incident by calling her Senator from the very beginning, but honestly he was giving her positional authority by calling her ma'am. If I were to say Senator I am CLEARLY letting that Senator know they hold NO authority over me. If I say Ma'am it is far more differential and inclusive. My current Commanding Officer is a Female. I say Ma'am which is far more appropriate then CAPTAIN, both show positional authority, but calling her CAPTAIN, although also giving her positional authority, it shows the difference to such a measure that it would not be necessarily respectful.

In the days when I was an Enlisted man I would render respect to my Division Officers by calling them Sir, Boss, or Divo or even LT. If I wanted to show them LESS respect I would call them Lieutenant.

You will not find most of these in books, although you will find the chain of command. The terms used are much more subtle....kind of like when an Officer uses Aye-Aye to a senior......it Officially means I hear, understand and will obey...... It CAN, depending on the context and conversation used immediately prior to using it, mean "I don't blankty-blank agree with you but your the boss so I will do it your way."

Kind of like the many different ways a salute can be rendered.... Remember when presidents walk off Marine 1 (Helo) the Marine Sentry may or may not face them.....Take a look at some of the different shots. Many of those guards are facing away from the bird. They still render a proper salute, but the context is FAR different and it sends a signal then if they are FACING the President...... Depends on the Guard and who is walking off the bird.

usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/blmarineone.htm

georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/president/gallery/

cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/50684129.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD58D9D670BEEF53B0AAF4D905087C61A9EE787E95850CAFC94E9C89C783688B46

You can find them facing away or towards for each President, but their is a meaning.

Take care.....

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:4, topic:201363"]
Wrong! You are saying that our elected officials do not toil. Saying "et al" includes both liberals and conservatives. You ought to work in a Congressman's office to see how much work they do handling constituents' requests, facilitating the solutions to constituents' problems, and working on legislation.

[/quote]

I'm not so sure I agree. Sure, they "toil" in some generic sense. So does nearly everyone. Some "toil" in their retirement working in the backyard garden. Some "toil" when working out in the gym. Some "toil" when performing a role in the latest blockbuster movie. And some "toil" just taking out the garbage. And, sure, politicians "toil" when answering phone calls and writing legislation.

The fundamental difference is that the government doesn't actually produce anything. It produces no wealth, only consumes wealth. The government isn't in the business of creating wealth or even being productive. It is an economic sink on the economy to provide for the essential protection of its citizens. Now, I'm sure we disagree, but unfortunately the government is trying to take on roles properly reserved for private citizens and organizations. In doing so, it takes more out of the economy than put puts back in through the "services" it provides.

So, perhaps politicians "toil," but I don't think it any different than my grandfather toiling in his garden. They certainly do not "toil" in the same sense as people working in private enterprise do.

[quote="Lypher, post:17, topic:201363"]
Any way...... The General could have avoided the whole incident by calling her Senator from the very beginning, but honestly he was giving her positional authority by calling her ma'am. If I were to say Senator I am CLEARLY letting that Senator know they hold NO authority over me. If I say Ma'am it is far more differential and inclusive. My current Commanding Officer is a Female. I say Ma'am which is far more appropriate then CAPTAIN, both show positional authority, but calling her CAPTAIN, although also giving her positional authority, it shows the difference to such a measure that it would not be necessarily respectful.

[/quote]

This is a good point.

When I was in the Air Force Academy, a group of us were sent to the infirmary for blisters, and while waiting, one of the airmen approached us and told us that we were to sit at attention and not to talk. One of the guys I was with was irritated that some punk 18 year old airman was telling an officer candidate what to do, replied, "Yes, AIRMAN." The response was within the bounds of decorum, but the meaning was clear.

In hindsight, we were also 18 year old punks, and *technically *we outranked him and were out of his chain of command. It was his attitude that was the problem, not what he said. Had he reminded us, with perhaps "Hey guys, you know you are supposed to sit at attention and not talk. I'd hate for an upperclassman to come in and see you like this." would have likely elicited a more favorable response.

My military experience tells me the same thing. Calling Boxer "Ma'am" was a deferential title of respect. It is too bad that Boxer didn't seem to know that, and reacted so negatively it.

[quote="Rich_Olszewski, post:12, topic:201363"]
She is a U.S. Senator and is owed some deference. Yeah, she wouldn't have died if he called her "Chickie" or "Babe" or "Hon," but the proprieties ought to be observed.

[/quote]

Didn't you serve in the Air Force, Rich? (Or am I confusing you with someone else?)

Using "sir" and "ma'am" are titles of respect. They are nowhere near "Chickie" or "Babe" or "Hon." In fact, that is what an E1 is to use with an O9, "sir" or "ma'am". If it is good enough for a low ranking enlisted to use with a senior officer, why wouldn't it be respectful for use with a senator?

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