CARM Discussion Board


#1

Any advice for someone visiting the CARM message board? The anti-Catholic sentiment is pretty strong, and I would say hostile. It scares me. There are some Catholics trying to engage in constructive dialogue and there are some non-Catholics whose posts are constructive, but the overall tone is harsh. Everything comes down to a Bible verse and any defense is dismissed as a “misinterpretation” or brainwashed by the Pope or some other nonsense. How do you defend Catholcism on the CARM discussion boards?


#2

[quote=jim1130]Any advice for someone visiting the CARM message board? The anti-Catholic sentiment is pretty strong, and I would say hostile. It scares me. There are some Catholics trying to engage in constructive dialogue and there are some non-Catholics whose posts are constructive, but the overall tone is harsh. Everything comes down to a Bible verse and any defense is dismissed as a “misinterpretation” or brainwashed by the Pope or some other nonsense. How do you defend Catholcism on the CARM discussion boards?
[/quote]

Two questions. What does CARM stand for and what is the link?

PF


#3

You can’t.
Their scripture is self-interpreted and they do not accept Tradition so there is no middle ground on which to have a discussion.
It would be like trying to discuss scripture with a mormon, with you using the Bible and the mormon using the bom.
There’s no middle ground.
It can only be frustrating.


#4

My advice is don’t bother, and I will point to Dave Armstrong’s article on this matter: Interacting With Sophists: Reflections on “Debates” With Anti-Catholic Polemicists

Scott


#5

[quote=WanderAimlessly]Two questions. What does CARM stand for and what is the link?

PF
[/quote]

CARM: Christian Apologetics Research Ministry

(PM this poster for link if desired, but I have removed it because it constitutes a call to “board swarm” something that CAF does not encourage in any way. That is not the only one, but just remember that if someone really wanted the truth about the Catholic faith, they’d get the facts from someone who actually knows what the church teaches. If that is not the case on a forum, regardless of how they claim to “love Catholics”, then perhaps you don’t really need to bve there. Always ask yourselves, “Is person really respectfully asking for info about my faith?” If the answer is “no” then you have no responsibility to answer them.)

Visiting this site made me realize even more the deep-rooted bias toward Catholics and Catholicism. Some have argued that the site is cordial to Catholics, but just start reading some of the posts and those non-Catholic brethren on this site have no complaints about how they are treated here.


#6

[quote=jim1130]Visiting this site made me realize even more the deep-rooted bias toward Catholics and Catholicism. Some have argued that the site is cordial to Catholics, but just start reading some of the posts and those non-Catholic brethren on this site have no complaints about how they are treated here.
[/quote]

For the 10 minutes I looked around, I found it to be somewhat amusing. Why? Because the few posts I read, they were so illogical.

The thought that came to my mind while reading a few posts was, If they are so against “the church” because of her authority, and proclaimation of having the truth, and it is really only about the bible and their interpretation of it; Why send their pastors to get theology degrees? I mean, if the bible is easily interpreted by everyone, and they know the exact meaning of the passage, even though the bible was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin and they only speak English so must rely on the translator’s interpretation, why do they have seminary schools for their pastors? :thumbsup:

And, if they say we alter and damage God’s laws, what are they doing when they keep changing their own doctrines to make it easier for their members?

I could have gotten angry or upset by their attitude, but I just found their biasness to be over the top. Many seem to be claiming something that they just can not prove. They want to stay on the surface of everything, but not do the real work. It is like a child trying to argue with a phd scholar over the good and bad qualities of say the industrial revolution. The PHD gives concrete proof and the child says “because I said so!”

So, do not waste your time, because you will only beat yoru head against the wall. You can not convert them or make them see the truth, only God can. But we can pray for the hardening of their hearts to be softened.


#7

[quote=kp1]For the 10 minutes I looked around, I found it to be somewhat amusing. Why? Because the few posts I read, they were so illogical.

The thought that came to my mind while reading a few posts was, If they are so against “the church” because of her authority, and proclaimation of having the truth, and it is really only about the bible and their interpretation of it; Why send their pastors to get theology degrees? I mean, if the bible is easily interpreted by everyone, and they know the exact meaning of the passage, even though the bible was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin and they only speak English so must rely on the translator’s interpretation, why do they have seminary schools for their pastors? :thumbsup:

And, if they say we alter and damage God’s laws, what are they doing when they keep changing their own doctrines to make it easier for their members?

I could have gotten angry or upset by their attitude, but I just found their biasness to be over the top. Many seem to be claiming something that they just can not prove. They want to stay on the surface of everything, but not do the real work. It is like a child trying to argue with a phd scholar over the good and bad qualities of say the industrial revolution. The PHD gives concrete proof and the child says “because I said so!”

So, do not waste your time, because you will only beat yoru head against the wall. You can not convert them or make them see the truth, only God can. But we can pray for the hardening of their hearts to be softened.
[/quote]

Thank you. I am glad that it is not me being over sensitive to their comments, most of which really sting.


#8

[quote=jim1130]Any advice for someone visiting the CARM message board? The anti-Catholic sentiment is pretty strong, and I would say hostile. It scares me. There are some Catholics trying to engage in constructive dialogue and there are some non-Catholics whose posts are constructive, but the overall tone is harsh. Everything comes down to a Bible verse and any defense is dismissed as a “misinterpretation” or brainwashed by the Pope or some other nonsense. How do you defend Catholcism on the CARM discussion boards?
[/quote]

Sounds like it’s some of the same thing over at the various debate boards on beliefnet as well.

Catholic debate: beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=5287

Christianity debate:
beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=4283

Evangelical Christianity debate:
beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=744


#9

Hi,
I’m new here and am in the process of converting (RCIA). Anyway, I was gonna make my first post about CARM myself so you beat me to it. I have been lurking around over there at times and I must say it is sad how some of the non-Catholics conduct themselves

At times I have wanted to jump into the fray myself, but unfortunately I just don’t have the knowledge to be of any help so my intention was to see if anyone here was aware of it in the hopes that some more knowledgable folks could participate if they wanted to. I really think that the Catholics over there could use any help they can get, as the tone of the board is very anti-Catholic and they love to gang up on people.


#10

[quote=jim1130]Any advice for someone visiting the CARM message board? The anti-Catholic sentiment is pretty strong, and I would say hostile. It scares me. There are some Catholics trying to engage in constructive dialogue and there are some non-Catholics whose posts are constructive, but the overall tone is harsh. Everything comes down to a Bible verse and any defense is dismissed as a “misinterpretation” or brainwashed by the Pope or some other nonsense. How do you defend Catholcism on the CARM discussion boards?
[/quote]

I was enjoying the debates there until I was suspended from CARM (3 weeks)
and I am banned from Christian Forums for 1 year…
I like to go after the ex-catholics or anyone who will engage.
I love to discuss from the Base of The New Covenant.
From The Death of Christ
From the Gifts of the Holy Spirit,
From Baptism, and From The Eucharist
Protestant Moderators don’t like me because
I Love Truth and I am not nice.
I personally think “doing time” in CARM is like doing time in Purgatory.

What I love the most is THE NEW WAVE of Catholic Evangelists looming on the horizon !
It makes my heart soar like an Eagle!

Glory Alleluia !

:smiley:
gusano


#11

[quote=marwargs]Hi,
I’m new here and am in the process of converting (RCIA). Anyway, I was gonna make my first post about CARM myself so you beat me to it. I have been lurking around over there at times and I must say it is sad how some of the non-Catholics conduct themselves

At times I have wanted to jump into the fray myself, but unfortunately I just don’t have the knowledge to be of any help so my intention was to see if anyone here was aware of it in the hopes that some more knowledgable folks could participate if they wanted to. I really think that the Catholics over there could use any help they can get, as the tone of the board is very anti-Catholic and they love to gang up on people.
[/quote]

CARM is pretty brutal. I wish I could be more help to them, but I’m just not as well versed.


#12

I dont post too terribly much there, but I do regularly. TO be fair there are a number in there that are willing to atleast discuss things with you. You also have to keep in mind that its ‘cool’ there to try and make catholics lok like idiots. So, what happens is, the ones that you would have been able to have a decent conversation with otherwise, are less likly to be as forthcoming in there. Watch TP, he is an amazing defender of catholicism in there (also is a priest). Many of the posters on there atleast respect him, even if they dont agree…

Ive got your back though :wink:

In Christ


#13

[quote=heisenburg]I dont post too terribly much there, but I do regularly. TO be fair there are a number in there that are willing to atleast discuss things with you. You also have to keep in mind that its ‘cool’ there to try and make catholics lok like idiots. So, what happens is, the ones that you would have been able to have a decent conversation with otherwise, are less likly to be as forthcoming in there. Watch TP, he is an amazing defender of catholicism in there (also is a priest). Many of the posters on there atleast respect him, even if they dont agree…

Ive got your back though :wink:

In Christ
[/quote]

St. Polycarp seems pretty sharp, too. There was a good debate been a Calvinist and a Byzantine Catholic that I was following. I thought the Calvinist was getting beaten and kept skirting issues to play victim.


#14

You will be dealing with a world of black and white thinking which is a fallacy because the real world is made up of many colors.


#15

[quote=jim1130]Any advice for someone visiting the CARM message board? The anti-Catholic sentiment is pretty strong, and I would say hostile. It scares me. There are some Catholics trying to engage in constructive dialogue and there are some non-Catholics whose posts are constructive, but the overall tone is harsh. Everything comes down to a Bible verse and any defense is dismissed as a “misinterpretation” or brainwashed by the Pope or some other nonsense. How do you defend Catholcism on the CARM discussion boards?
[/quote]

I know :smiley: - LOL. It can be very frustrating. But then, maybe some of them think we are frustrating: when tempted to dismiss them, this is something one tries to remember: not always successfully :slight_smile:

I think all one can do is pray that God will bless both them and us - apart from that being Christ’s command, it is difficult to be mean to those one loves. Giving as good as one gets doesn’t have that advantage. In a way, it doesn’t matter what they think of us, or we of them - it does matter that we should not hurt each other. One of the Catholics there has a very good sig line, about how convincing Saints are as recommendations of Catholicism. A Saint is simply someone who is responsive to God’s Gracious Love, without reservation. The more Christ is present in us all, the more easy it will be - presumably - to have a ftruitful dialoguue which builds us all up; instead of the squabbles we seem to get into. So we need to pray for each other, I think :slight_smile:

In addition, we can try to see things from their POV - which is where converts may have an advantage over “born” Catholics.

BTW, I’ve had some good exchanges with some of the posters: FWIW. I think we found we had some attitudes to grace (in this case) in common - maybe the way ahead would be less stony if we could emphasise what we have in common, rather than emphasising what divides all the time. Even if some deny it, we are their brethren & sisters in Christ.

They are not our enemies, just as we are not theirs; so they aren’t enemies to be overcome. They aren’t even debating partners. They are human beings for whom Christ died, just as we are - they simply follow a diffeerent type of Christianity.* If* that is a correct description, it should be easier for us to love them; and to behave accordingly.

Any help ? ##


#16

[quote=jim1130] I think there are good churches out there, don;t get me wrong, but the Bible-only people really have a mean streak, and these are just my opinions.
[/quote]

Hi Jim!

Some have a mean streak but not all. The ones who attack the Catholic Church are indeed threatened. Notice how the article attacks only the Roman Catholic Church regarding the belief in the “Real Presence”. In doing so they also are attacking all Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. The point is that these people have no choice but to deny the “Real Presence”. If they did not deny it, they would be forced to become Catholic or Orthodox–and they are too comfortable with their current theology so it is easier to attack the Biblical, Traditional and historical doctrine. There is a veil covering their eyes and blinding them and only the grace of God can remove this veil. Pray for them. :slight_smile:


#17

[quote=Mickey]Hi Jim!

Some have a mean streak but not all. The ones who attack the Catholic Church are indeed threatened. Notice how the article attacks only the Roman Catholic Church regarding the belief in the “Real Presence”. In doing so they also are attacking all Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. The point is that these people have no choice but to deny the “Real Presence”. If they did not deny it, they would be forced to become Catholic or Orthodox–and they are too comfortable with their current theology so it is easier to attack the Biblical, Traditional and historical doctrine. There is a veil covering their eyes and blinding them and only the grace of God can remove this veil. Pray for them. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’m trying, I’m trying! I was reading “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” last night and must admit that some, if not most, of the material really is way over my head. I was reading about Mary, the Immaculate Conception, her perpetual virginity, etc. which are so often under attack. I understand it, but cannot express it well enough to defend it.


#18

I understand how you feel Jim and I have come to the conclusion that being an apologist is not God’s plan for me. I do know the basics of what we believe and that’s good enough for me. From what I have seen on this forum and others those who are bent on attacking our faith are never going to admit that the Catholic Church is the true church of Christ. For me, I need to spend my time in prayer and reading the scriptures and strengthen my relationship with God. When I get caught up in these debates I seem to loose sight of what God wants me to do. I’m just speaking for myself. I thank God for those of you who are good apologists and I have seen many here.


#19

[quote=CatholicChef]I understand how you feel Jim and I have come to the conclusion that being an apologist is not God’s plan for me. I do know the basics of what we believe and that’s good enough for me. From what I have seen on this forum and others those who are bent on attacking our faith are never going to admit that the Catholic Church is the true church of Christ. For me, I need to spend my time in prayer and reading the scriptures and strengthen my relationship with God. When I get caught up in these debates I seem to loose sight of what God wants me to do. I’m just speaking for myself. I thank God for those of you who are good apologists and I have seen many here.
[/quote]

I concur. I have neither the emotional or intellectual make-up to be an Apologetic, but one thing I do learn is from reading comments of those Catholics who are articule and knowledgable. Their comments make my faith firmer and, like you, I am prayerfully grateful that we have such astute theological leaders on these forums.


#20

[quote=jim1130]I understand it, but cannot express it well enough to defend it.
[/quote]

It can take time, jim. Personally, I have a long way to go. :o
It’s best to ignore the pitbulls while helping to educate the sincere inquiries.


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