Carm.org claims Catholics are not Christian

They claim because we venerate Mary and pray to her and saints that we undermine Christ. I have heard protestant groups say we aren’t Christian many times for reasons like this, we are blasted for idolatry in our churches and pagan rituals etc. To many Protestant groups the Catholic church is just as Christian as Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses… How do we respond to this?

Depends on the particular group, their claims and if they are open to reason and logical dialogue. Some are unapproachable, they will answer you with a laundry list of claims presented as fact and challenge and assertion with their voice as the voice of God.

Assuming the person wants to actually have a reasonable discussion the first thing I would do is ask them what makes a Christian. I’d get them to define their terms. If they say a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus or trusts in Jesus then they are obviously wrong about Catholics. Once they gave an answer I’d start poking holes in whatever they say.

I’d also ask them how they know whatever claims they make. For instance if someone says a Christian is someone who believes in the Bible I’d ask how they know what books are in the Bible.

Basically what I’d do is start asking them questions and point out flaws in their claims. If you just try to defend the Catholic Church they will most likely keep moving from issue to issue. You’ll find many people are great at making claims but very bad at actually substaniating them. Since they are the one making the claim make them defend it.

With something like “that’s interesting. I have a pot of coffee brewing, want some?” Then I’d pour them a cup and say something “whaddya think about that game last night?”

I’m not kidding. If anyone is bent on proselytizing you, arguing is a waste of time. Kill 'em with charity instead. Catholicism should ooze charity. It’s the only way to open up a true dialogue. Argument is not dialogue. We win converts through dialogue, not argument.

CARM is a particularly vile website, who are afraid of real debate or discussion on their forums. Their theology is puddle-deep and they get very upset when you start poking holes into their made-up theology. They tell half-truths and falsehoods about the Christian faith, proclaiming their particular version is the correct one.

Even the most polite and humble Catholic apologist won’t last long on there before they get banned for posting things that they can’t refute.

If you can stomach them, more power to you. I’ve quoted direct sections of the Catechism showing explicit Catholic teaching, and they will ignore it completely and restate their false claim of what we teach. It’s pathetic.

You can be certain of one thing, they don’t have the fullness of the Christian faith, because they are afraid of the truth. They can’t even admit truthfully what the Catholic Church teaches. It’s one thing to disagree with something we believe, it’s entirely another to refuse to admit what we actually teach (and not the bastardized version they’ve created). Christians follow He who IS Truth. So if a Christian is afraid of the truth, they aren’t following Jesus.

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If someone is genuinely interested in hearing about Catholicism then you can usually have a convivial reasoned debate…if they are just there to bait you then it’s just a waste of time because you cannot reason with them…they are not seeking the truth…they are anti-Catholic…period…wish them a good day and move on.

Yep. Even orthodox, traditional non-Roman Catholics aren’t safe there. Lutherans are, apparently, “no different from the papists” because we believe God delivers His Grace to us through the Sacraments. :rolleyes:

I thought CARM was a Lutheran form of CAF.

By ignoring it. Those at Carm.org are not openminded people, in my experience. You will just end up frustrated. Are you asking on how to approach responding to those at Carm.org, or are you looking for an response to Carm.org?

It scary how much many form of Protestantism have in common with Gnosticism :frowning:

Christi pax,

Lucretius

ChristianChat.com is another website openly hostile to Catholics

If Catholics aren’t Christian, I guess Christianity wasn’t invented until the Protestant Revolution.

I guess Luther just invented it out of a hat, using some figure he read had existed 1500 years previous.

Christianity in general suddenly has a lot less credibility, doesn’t it?

Yes. And then give them this quote:

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:19 KJV

Take a look at how the Chinese government, of the most populous nation in the world, looks at it.
In its constitution it only recognizes five religions: Daoism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and Catholicism. The reason for this misunderstanding harkens back to the days of Western missionary rivalry.

I would ignore them.
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6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
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They can claim anything they want. It doesn’t make them right, it just makes them idiots.

Terms for Christianity in Chinese include: “Protestantism” (Chinese: 基督教新教; pinyin: Jīdū jiào xīn jiào; literally: “Christ religion’s new religion”); “Catholicism” (Chinese: 天主教; pinyin: Tiānzhǔ jiào; literally: “Heavenly Lord religion”); and Eastern Orthodox Christians (Chinese: 東正教/东正教; pinyin: Dōng zhèng jiào; literally: “Eastern Orthodox religion”). The whole of Orthodox Christianity is named Zhèng jiào (正教). Christians in China are referred to as “Christ followers/believers” (Chinese: 基督徒; pinyin: Jīdū tú) or “Christ religion followers/believers” (Chinese: 基督教徒; pinyin: Jīdū jiào tú).

The first missionaries to China were Church of the East, the Syriac manuscripts and monuments are now historic sites - Christianity eventually diminished, but the Assyrian Church (known as Jingjiao (景教), or the Luminous Religion) had a Metropolitan See in China by 411.

We Lutherans are horrid rotten sinners, but CARM is too horrid even for us.

It’s been said that Mos Eisley Spaceport compares to CARM but that determination would take way too long for me to suffer.

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Which goes to show the flaw in the protestant position of “we are all united in Christ”. A position too often purported when asked “…then what are the similarities within all of Christianity”?:shrug:

Peace!!!

:rotfl: No, we have our own Wittenberg Trail. Though we’ve been known to mooch off of our richer Roman Catholic siblings. ;):smiley:

youtube.com/watch?v=0znNiN0lYAQ

Some Protestants will say the same.

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